Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion to conform or not to conform

I was not aware that California is now near the bottom although their funding issues are periodically in the news and they do have a disproportionate ESL population. I was thinking of other states whose curriculums with which I am familiar. Anyhow, I purposely did not want to call out and criticize any specific states.

I don't live in MA but in general, our children certainly would not get substantially dumber partly because they have educated parents with resources. Relatives/friends in some of these poor performing states send their kids to top prep schools and/or extra-curricular acceleration/enrichment opportunities. The high average(and below)ability kids with financially strapped and/or uninvolved parents probably would not fare as well.

I can only answer this by saying that California teachers are generally well-paid and that the "teachers are underpaid" argument holds no water in this state. The teachers in our district average $75K per year. That's a good salary. If two teachers were married, they'd be earning enough to put them solidly in the upper middle class, even in a pricey place like the Bay Area.

I wonder if we simply expect too much of many students. Many or most students are simply not bright enough to complete a college education in a traditional subject area like English, history, or a STEM field. They get degrees in subjects that are often tickets to low wages and student debt.

In addition, poverty and poor healthcare contribute to poor school performance. Schools can't fix that, but we as a nation blame them for the problems that result from them on the one hand and don't seem to want to take steps to fix the problems on the other hand.

Bad textbooks don't help, either. Especially bad math textbooks, but I've already commented on that problem.

So do you question them? Or comply?

Javohl!

I think it reduces confusion and delay, for complicated requests. Whether it undermines authority or not depends on the insecurity level of the authorities.

For emergencies, a "Hear me now and believe me later" approach is acceptable.

Only insecure people object to a polite question versus a challenge. There are time when 'because I want you to' is a valid reason in my house though. Sometimes I just want it done a certain way and I acknowledge there may be better ways but we really don't have time to experiment at that point. Ds is sure his way would be quicker but I can't have it take longer and I don't have time to argue.

We have three kids to get out the door in the morning and into bed at night, and the two which are talking in full sentences are perfectly cable of yelling "why?" and arguing forever every single time they are asked to come for breakfast/lunch/dinner, eat their greens, put on their socks, brush their teeth....they know why. All of these things have been explained a myriad times. I make my stand that finally yelling "because I said so!" on behalf of a frustrated parent is a reaction to being bullied!

Concerning the "high standards for all" movement and the question of whether it is actually beneficial to hold up these standards for all, but especially for underprivileged kids, some of you may be interested in this article by Andreas Schleicher, the OECD's education director responsible for the PISA study, whom I would like to assert I disagree with on many counts, but on the high standards for all thing he's got me sold.
Also a very interesting book on that by an American journalist Amanda Ripley, which I believe has been mentioned before on these boards, with the (admittedly stupid) title "the smartest kids in the world.

Of course the salient thing for the high ability/HG+ gifted kids remains to make sure that these children are allowed to go above and beyond those standards! and not made to conform "down"' as it were. According to the PISA results for countries like Canada, Finland, and many Asian countries, it does seem to be possible, but it remains a struggle, with a constant need to check and evaluate on what's happening with those kids.

I think an authority that does not allow itself to be questioned should be undermined, and delays are often beneficial when the correct path is uncertain. I will admit, in my own house I do sometimes lay down the law to squash whinny complaining. Whinny complaining is not questioning, but rather apathy.

I like to answer these questions with one of my own: "Why do you ask questions when you already know the answers?"

As a Canadian, I can assure you that public schools, particularly at the elementary level, do not support the pursuit of high standards. Instead, gifted students are routinely given IEPs that are not implemented and required to not receive instruction above grade level (even in congregated gifted programs).