Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Changes in technology education

I totally agree, there is a big difference between using a computer and programming or designing one and many people don't fully understand that. Just because my kids can surf and play on a tablet doesn't mean they are ready for a job in high tech. I was one of those kids in the 80's who's computer classes were how to use a word processor or excel. It bored me to tears and I thought that was what computers were about until I stumbled onto programming in University.

I was meaning to post this here but got sidetracked last week. It happens to be the first link in the above article and it fits in well with the above discussion.

http://www.motherjones.com/media/20...&utm_campaign=is-coding-the-new-literacy

From the article:

A sound reason not to take AP Computer Science in favor of say AP Calculus is that fewer universities give credit for AP CS, as one finds at the AP Credit Policy Search https://apstudent.collegeboard.org/creditandplacement/search-credit-policies . Having looked at the introductory CS courses at a few schools (Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, MIT, U of Washington) I see that the introductory CS course is not standardized across institutions in the way that calculus is. AP CS uses Java, which is a common choice in introductory college CS classes, including at Princeton, but there are courses using C (Harvard), JavaScript (Stanford), and Python (MIT). The choice of language will affect what is taught, although all courses will talk about loops, conditional statements, and functions. One reason high schools may not teach computer science and programming is that there is less consensus than for math or science about what to teach.

At my HS (in the 80s), they had computer programming - PASCAL, FOTRAN, COBOL and other languages - which only (white) boys took. This was an elective course then and essentially a (white) boys computer club in high school.

And, since we're on the top, look up the stats and ratios on AP computer science and computer science degrees at places like Georgia Tech, Stanford, MIT and you'll see that there's still a diversity issue with it.

Today, there's MIT's Scratch and Code Academy and other ways to learn how to code. Some are more open or I'd say welcoming to a diverse population. Others, I don't feel are so.

I took HTML and had to design a web page in library grad school. Was it useful? Yes and no. It was an elective and not a required course of the curriculum because the core curriculum still rests with the ways information is cataloged, searched, analyzed, processed, stored, etc. I found computer programming sooooo linear, sequential, dry, and pedantic to be far, far worse than I ever imagined. Yuck.

Should computer programming be required before high school? No, I don't think so, imo. It's useful information and helpful to some students. BUT I do think that digital literacy and the way information is processed, cataloged, and stored has precedence for public education. Public education can, of course, make computer programing available or briefly touched upon the topic.

Don't worry, now there will be Asian boys too. But seriously, just because a class or club disproportionately attracts one sex or ethnic group does not mean it is inequitable. There are lots of college majors with a preponderance of females (and overall there is a preponderance of women getting BA's), and I rarely read of those fields being accused of discrimination.

There are a lot of reasons high schools aren't teaching computer science and programming and I agree there isn't a consensus on what to teach. They can't agree on language at the college level either but at least they are setting a foundation on which to build. Most teachers are not qualified or given the training to teach CS which is then compounded by a lack of curriculum. Kid's have packed schedules and have to worry about their GPA in the crazy college entrance rat race so they aren't signing up. The introductory courses are all about how to do nice spreadsheets which loses the kid's interest. There is a huge stereotype around computer nerds that turns kids off before they even sign up. I'm sure there are more.

My kid's elementary school hasn't had a computer lab for years - they switched to iPad's which I've yet to see used for anything other than games. The former computer lab was converted into a classroom because they needed the space. This in an area where many of the parents work in high tech....

From the Mother Jones article -


There were 8% women in my EE graduating class almost 20 years ago. Not much has changed since then unfortunately.

Another possible confounding factor in why SOME fields in STEM seem to lose adolescent girls is that biology drives a more social learning style for girls.

So team activities, and those with "partners" or mentors tend to be more successful at retention. There are those in Computer Science who are exploring these gender based differences with an eye toward making coding an activity that girls and young women find fulfilling enough to want to pursue.

Apparently, it doesn't take a lot of tweaking to get them there-- much of the problem is in the solitary nature of traditional programming instruction.

Google has recently created a Girls Who Code site promoting a Summer Immersion Program for 10th-11th grade girls http://girlswhocode.com/programs/ and an accompanying site Made with Code https://www.madewithcode.com .

If social learning is an issue, then Pair Programming as a mode of education could be popular. Circling back to the scientific method and my earlier comment, I'd consider a team approach to a technology oriented course:

You have four members with two projects. One person is the end user, one the business analyst, and a pair of developers, and concurrently swap roles so that everyone ends up developing in parallel. Another "more real" skill is getting your requirements met by your technology resources. The developers could be programming, producing art, slide shows, or anything. The model and process is reusable and very common in business where everyone is someone else's end user.

AP Computer Science curriculum in changing next year. I am not sure of the details and how it will changed. But I wonder how this change will affect things. There is a problem that the AP system changes with less frequently than programs at a typical CS at university. At one point my local university changed their first language to Java at the request of local industry leaders, but since then it's changed to Python. I think a first class it's more important that students understand how programing works and beginning language is less important.

But AP Computer Science is not the only AP that isn't really useful once you hit college. My H.S. only offers non calculus based AP Physics. If you need to take Physics with Calculus for your college major, Physics must be retaken. AP Stats is also without Calculus, and if you are going into certain majors you have to retake Stats with Calculus. This is not necessary a bad thing but students and parent needs to understand those AP Classes aren't going to shorten the length of time to get the BA.

AP Computer Science is a popular class in my H.S. Yes it is probably 3/4 white or asian boys. Part of the problem with taking it is having the space to take it in the schedule. My son would love to take it next year, he has all the per-requisites but there is no room in his schedule. The most likely is he will take it senior year because our school has no math more advanced than Calculus.

I think it's much more likely that qualified teachers for the AP Computer Science are harder to find. While my son's school has taught AP Computer Science for years, non of the other schools in the district have for lack of teacher. A new teacher was just hired by one of those schools. People who can teach these classes typically don't have teaching credentials because they can make more money in industry or at community college level.

How much of it is also the perception many girls tend to have that computers/math are for boys or if they like those subjects, they are dorks/geeks? The social aspect is not just learning style but the perceptions among the girls, which drives their motivation to be in one of those fields or avoid those fields. I went to an all women's college, which meant all our CS and science students were women, and all our computer clusters run and staffed by the students - again, all women. Half of my sports team in college were science majors. It was odd for me to go from college where our science center was full of women to working in a corporate environment where there were only a handful of women in the technical groups.

This is why even though DD is not even preschool, I have decided to take a chance on the Augie and the Green Knight book (on kickstart) - because that is about a mathy/science girl on a cool adventure. Those are the type of books I am going to be hoping to find for DD among the usual classics as she grows up - where the main female girl characters are in science/math and cool.