Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Nonacademic Effects of Homework in High Schools

This exactly. Requiring outlining the textbook seems to me to be a misguided effort to prepare students for college coursework rather than an attempt to actually imitate it.

This is exactly how I got an A in AP history my junior year. I had a B on the basis of the ridiculous tests (because I refused to memorize what color everyone in the textbook illustrations was wearing, and similarly silly "facts" for quizzes). My parents were grumpy at me about the B until I brought home some quizzes to show them. They never said a word after that.

My high score on the test was due to my science/math background, too. We never discussed things like original sources or research, but I knew about them from my science courses and was able to sound like I knew what I was talking about in essays because of it.

And I disagree, having taught in higher ed-- but only because I know full well that different students have very different profiles in assessment-- even those with equal (and thorough) mastery.

Not everyone "tests" well using the same metric-- but that isn't to say that students who have difficulty with the AP test don't know the material well. Some of them, no doubt, could ROCK a term paper on the subject, or, for that matter, an ORAL examination.

That's why college classes are generally reliant upon more than one mode of assessment.

But otherwise, yeah-- I agree with those who find the outlining thing in APUSH to be ridiculous to the point of absurdity. VERY glad that my DD's class doesn't require such nonsense of her. She really is just responsible for knowing the material well-- okay, she does have to do a bunch of more or less meaningless assignments as "filler" in between more meaty demonstrations of mastery... but it's light years better than what her peers in B&M coursework report about the class.

I talked over brilliantcp's report with my DH, and he also just shook his head and asked "what on earth is the point of THAT??"

DD hopes, more than anything else, that college will be vastly different in one respect-- that being the lack of assignments that make her frown, wrinkle her nose, and note with disdain; "Well, this is an enormous waste of time all around."

Yeah, producing a powerpoint, multi-media slide show, or a formulaic essay on some kind of faux synthesis of low-level material from the textbook (as opposed to genuine primary sources) doesn't "teach" much of anything, particularly when it happens in a vacuum. Oh, look at my fancy echo chamber...

Unless college has changed tremendously in the past ten years, I predict that she will at least get that particular wish granted. No more "create a chart that analyzes each character in ________, and select quotes from each scene to illustrate your character's motivations." Yuck-yuck-yuck. I will say, DD has reached the point where she can crank through that kind of thing at a TERRIFIC rate, but I suspect that it's because she has finally concluded that this isn't really a "learning" activity, and that she should treat it as a simple pass-through. She sees herself as some sort of academic medium, I think. Enter the trance, complete the assignment, and snap out of it back to herself. Well, she uses far more colorful language to describe this particular process. LOL.

Pretty sure that would be cheeky if she pointed it out to her teachers, though.

It took me a minute to realize that APUSH stood for AP US History, and wasn't just a derogatory term for AP classes in general.

LOL. It's way to easy to get in the habit of using these kinds of acronyms.

Despite all our complaints. There are good things about AP Classes. It's just the way SOME teachers/school implement the classes. There are good teachers, my son has H. Biology from the main AP Biology teacher at our school. He doesn't believe in excess homework and he is one of the schools best teachers. And the kids get top grades on the AP.

When I was in H.S. (eons ago now) there were teachers at my school who said that your grade could be improved by the AP exam. A 4 on the test guaranteed a minimum of a B in the class, and a 5 a A. One of my friends improved her grades significantly that way. Alas no more, I know kids who got B's all through H.S. but 5's on every AP taken.

Yes-- no two ways about it, AP courses are by far the best- designed, and largely the best-implemented courses that my DD has had in her school career.

With the possible exception of the Great Courses material that were the basis for the GT literature electives back in middle school.

The assessments are mostly okay-ish-- with a few genuinely stoooooopid entries.

DD earns A's, but doesn't feel like playing the game for A+ grades, and we leave her alone about it. This is her way of compromising on intellectual freedom/honesty with the course expectations.

She also does not take the AP exams-- not that I think she wouldn't do well (because I think she'd earn 5's) but because this isn't why she's in those classes to start with. It's about credentialling, her transcripts, and most of all, least-worst fit academically. Credit and exam scores aren't part of the picture, since we don't care if she gets "credit" at a college-- we'd rather pay for dual enrollment than AP exams.

I don't think they're all well-organized. My eldest enrolled in AP US History through CTY at Hopkins last year, and he dropped it like a hot potato two weeks later. It was 95% based on memorization of factoids assessed through online multiple choice tests. The other 5% of the grade was based on "essays" that had to be written in 40 minutes or less (practice for timed AP exam essays). Instructor time was minimal and was limited to an online chat session once a week or so for an hour or less. Everything came from a canned course CTY had licensed in from some company somewhere, and on top of the $1300 course fee, you had to pay $100 to get access to the course materials. I don't know why people stay in those courses. CTY provides absolutely NOTHING. I wrote to them to complain about it, and they answered by saying that "Our instructors are so great and blah blah blah" and then told me they were looking into licensing in even MORE courses.

That said, the homegrown CTY courses DS took were outstanding. By this, I mean the courses that someone had developed just for CTY (e.g. Crafting the Essay) and/or courses that seemed to be taught only there (e.g. Forensics). There was real interaction with an instructor and meaningful feedback on assignments in those courses.

It took me about a year.

ETA: Oldest is in 2nd grade.

This does tend to indicate that extreme parental pushing can be a huge problem. While I am one who believes students should be allowed to take higher level courses that interest them even if its level is outside of their comfort zone, I also agree that a student can be pushed too much.

Four or more hours of homework per night, total not even considering in one class, is too much regardless of age for any student before college. That level indicates a problem somewhere, so the question is whether it is with the student and his/her ability to do the work, with the teacher and his/her ability to manage the class, or with the administrators and their push for homework in the name of "rigor".

On the flip side, I do believe age/ability appropriate homework can teach a great deal, especially in literature and history courses (read outside of class, discussion in). One of the reasons that so many problems arise in connection with homework seems to come from class sizes and the inability of teachers to truly differentiate. So long as parents and the education establishment insist on differentiation within mixed ability classes instead of tracking, then very small classes are a must.

Busy work is never/rarely good, and homework for the sake of homework shouldn't be allowed. But there is some value to practicing skills (penmanship, math facts, etc.) for some students. Again, if the classes are manageable, then the teacher can tailor the lesson plans AND homework assignments to each child.

I also must say that I'm happier with my son's school after reading this thread. They might not have provided the challenge and differentiation promised and needed, but they also have required very little homework. In Kindergarten, I remember he had 1 or 2 very small assignments per *week* and it has slowly increased each year. He has a pretty good teacher this year who is not requiring him to complete the math homework the other kids are doing and he normally finishes the remainder of his homework in school. But even in talking with other parents, I've found very few who are complaining about the amount of homework, though some are complaining about the level of the work. I'm glad his school at least has a few things right!

I agree, and you expressed this much more clearly than I could have.

I also have to say that parents on both sides seem to create some of these problems as well, at least in my area. Many in this thread have already discussed the parental pushers, but I've also seen the parental slackers who get upset with any amount of homework because it interferes with sports and other extra curricular activities. Are their kids *really* spending 4+ hours every night, or are there *some* parents who are exaggerating because it fits their agenda? Don't know, but I do know the slacker group is out there.