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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,489
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American society is committed to the idea that almost everyone should graduate from high school, including people with IQs in the 80s and 90s, who are just as numerous as the people with IQs in the 100s and 110s. You can give someone with a 90 IQ a high school diploma, but you cannot make him "fully prepared for college", unless you remove serious intellectual demands from college work. Keep in mind the term 'college' in the U.S. means vastly different things. Both research Universities and community college and many schools in between are considered college. There are vastly different expectations for getting into these schools. Part of the problem is we have turned what used to be vocational school into 2 year AA degrees at colleges. The level to graduate from H.S. is really very low. In CA the "exit" exam is given to sophomores and only requires a freshman level or math & reading. And the students are required to pass 4 years of English, but it doesn't need to be college "prep". Most universities I know require a higher level of math & writing/reading. A H.S. diploma does not mean one is ready for university.
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Joined: Feb 2011
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I think we need a source for the statement on common core and pre-test placement in sub-100 level remedial courses before we debate on that too much. "It has been indicated" obscures the source, and often indicates an appeal to authority fallacy. This may be much ado about nothing.
However...
It's worth stating that the use of sub-100 remedial courses is highly correlated with failure to attain a degree, so anything that reduces the use of such courses is a good thing. Realistically, they should not be needed by recent high school graduates, who should be graduating fully prepared for college. American society is committed to the idea that almost everyone should graduate from high school, including people with IQs in the 80s and 90s, who are just as numerous as the people with IQs in the 100s and 110s. You can give someone with a 90 IQ a high school diploma, but you cannot make him "fully prepared for college", unless you remove serious intellectual demands from college work. Agreed. The fact that this attitude is now pervasive at College Board is perfectly odious. (Oh there I go again, using one of those words....)
Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Indeed, HK. I'm familiar with the writing placement exam for the UC system, since my local UC administered their test to all AP English students in their junior year of high school, as a practice. So I looked it up and saw that, yes, that's still a thing, though it's waived if you get a high enough score on the right sections of the SAT or ACT, or a passing grade on the AP English test.
Whether you take the UC test or not, you're still being assessed. Exactly, and it's not up to College Board to determine what the Board of Regents decides that it will accept as proof, either. If the SAT proves unworthy as a tool, UC will simply ignore it and require everyone to sit the UC exam, which is what happened back when there was no essay.
Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,856
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American society is committed to the idea that almost everyone should graduate from high school, including people with IQs in the 80s and 90s, who are just as numerous as the people with IQs in the 100s and 110s. You can give someone with a 90 IQ a high school diploma, but you cannot make him "fully prepared for college", unless you remove serious intellectual demands from college work. Not relevant, because I said, "certain courses." If completing Algebra II is the generally accepted math benchmark for college readiness, then college-bound students should complete at least Algebra II. I've never seen Algebra II as a requirement to get a high school diploma.
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Ahhh-- maybe not SPECIFICALLY, no-- but in my state, at least, there are two requirements in mathematics which are a de facto requirement there.
1. All students must complete Geometry-- 1 yr
2. All students must complete one year of algebra.
3. Three years of mathematics at/beyond Algebra I are required for graduation with a regular {state} high school diploma.
So yes, in fact, in the sequence Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II, and Precalculus, students MUST pass Algebra II in order to graduate with a regular (not "modified") diploma.
Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Look, it's embarrassing to have only a 70% high school graduation rate state-wide. So, you pass everybody as long as they show up and let colleges deal with the problem. Granted, you only get up to 83%....but that's much less embarrassing than 70%. http://accrpt.ncpublicschools.org/app/2013/cgrext/
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Nice. Well, this explains my why state's graduation rate is so stubbornly low, though-- those darned legislators, insisting on algebra skills. {sigh}
Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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Joined: Oct 2011
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Ahhh-- maybe not SPECIFICALLY, no-- but in my state, at least, there are two requirements in mathematics which are a de facto requirement there.
1. All students must complete Geometry-- 1 yr
2. All students must complete one year of algebra.
3. Three years of mathematics at/beyond Algebra I are required for graduation with a regular {state} high school diploma.
So yes, in fact, in the sequence Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II, and Precalculus, students MUST pass Algebra II in order to graduate with a regular (not "modified") diploma. Wow. In CA, the requirement is two years of high school math minimum, including Algebra I. The other year was satisfied by some of my friends on the five year plan (3-year school) with a class called "Business Math," which looked a lot like 6th grade arithmetic to me. In LA, you have to finish Algebra I (which you can split into two years) and Geometry.
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,363
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HK, I'm genuinely surprised that Algebra II is required for a regular HS diploma in your state. Not saying it shouln't be - just hadn't ever heard of it being required anywhere before!
FWIW, our school district requires 2.5 years of math credits, and completion of Algebra I - but there are watered-down versions of "Algebra I" which spread it out over 3 semesters.
polarbear
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Joined: Mar 2013
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Our district has a 2-year Algebra I sequence and that covers the required two years of math & Algebra I requirement. The only schools that require Algebra II that I know are the private college prep schools. That isn't to say that most of the school does pass at least Algebra II as most universities require it and most kids are on a college prep track.
In my district you can also pass H.S. with D's on your transcript. Can't get into the state universities with ANY D's on your transcript. But you can graduate H.S.
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