Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment MAP: Can You Have Artificial "Good Day" Score?

Does your school have access to a website called RAZ kids? If so, I would stop debating it with the teacher and allow her to read and test her comprehension on RAZ and let her go as far as she can on that website.

I tend to agree that the assigned levels are really unimportant as long as your child is reading and comprehending at her desired level. It sounds like she is already beyond classroom instruction and her teacher is very inflexible. Perhaps I have been beaten down by the system (we have no G&T here in MI, so we get NO acceleration what so ever) but when I finally stopped banging my head against the wall making the school cooperate and just started supplementing at home, my life became so much more peaceful and less stressful and my DD continues to flourish and bloom at school at her own pace, regardless of what is being instructed in the classroom. Currently we work on Algebra at home and they are just starting division in her classroom.

I am just thankful she loves the socialization at school, otherwise, I fear she would hate to go there every day. If I had more confidence, I would just home school, but I can clearly see my DD is going to be far more advanced then I ever was, so I don't want to mess her up for life!! LOL

You've received a lot of great advice and information already.

I share your concern regarding test score data and reading group placement information not being shared on a timely basis. That being said, substitute teachers, even long-term subs, may have limited decision-making authority. Because you mention that this sub has had several assignments with the school, your paths may cross again, as she may be likely to sub again or even be hired in a regular teaching position.

You may already have explored the MAP test website (NWEA.org), and may have read their articles about sharing test results, using score ranges, utilizing three pieces of data (triangulation) to make placement decisions etc (to navigate through their website to this information, click on "support", then "article", sharing-results-students). The RIT score charts also provide interesting background information. The ideas gleaned from reading the test company's website may be helpful to keep in the back of one's mind when meeting with DD's teacher after she returns from maternity leave.

Some agenda items to guide a meeting discussion might be those which help you learn:
1- What data is being used to determine DD's reading placement?
2- Relative strengths and weaknesses? What identified skills to work on?
3- How is comprehension being assessed?*
4- How a child qualifies for placement in the next higher reading group?

You may wish to keep a list of books your DD reads at home, noting their reading level, and date. This may be helpful for future advocacy.

(*In some cases, such as F&P, a teacher may be able to share a comprehension rubric, the results of which are separate from the letter score. Further conversation may lead to the Continuum of Literacy Learning, a book which the teacher may have received included in the professional framework, part of the benchmark assessment system.)

Good luck with this.

ETA: link to one of the threads which previously discussed DRA assessments.

Just wanted to give everyone a quick update on this. We left off at Christmas with the sub doing another DRA and telling me emphatically that DD was in the correct reading group (level L with 40 page books, large print, and no vocabulary) and being in a special pull-out class for kids with reading problems.

After Christmas, we started back up and amazingly, the first week, DD was put in the highest reading group and assessed at a level R. MAP reading test increased to 99%.

Math stagnated as nothing was taught the entire semester and DD slipped down to 90th percentile. We supplemented at home as much as possible (even learning multiplication, long division, and fractions). No measurement skills were taught at all and I was not at all sure what would be on the math portion so we just focused on those basic areas. Apparently, it was not near enough. Her chance for accelerated work in this area for next year was sabotaged by an inept instructor.

The sub has now moved onto another 2nd grade class in our school where the teacher is out on maternity leave for the rest of the semester. I have no doubt that she is doing this to another child whose classroom placement will be greatly affected by it next year.

Thanks for the update! Glad to hear your child's assigned reading level has moved up.

In regard to the sub, it appears as though she may not be empowered to make changes, but rather may be required to essentially keep the class in a state of suspended animation? Is this something which might be discussed/clarified with powers-that-be at your child's school?

Just wanted to add my experience on here too. We have had a similar experience at our school. My son scored very highly on all of his MAP subtests. Yet, the school didn't want to accelerate him in math and put him in an average level reading group. When I asked the school about this discrepancy, they gave me a lot of gobbledygook about how the MAP test only tests certain things and the in class assessment tests other things. Bottom line: the MAP test means nothing in our school (don't know why they are doing it) and the in class assessments mean everything.

Our school has worked to undermine achievement with my son and other gifties. There have been some scary passive aggressive attempts to make sure the gifties "even out". For example, in my son's class last year, there was a group of gifted/bright boys. For some reason they all got put into the same class. The other class had a mix of bright boys and girls. The boys in my son's class were pretty rough and tumble boys. The teacher regularly chose only VERY "girly" books for the boys to read. I think all children should read all kinds of books. But the teacher intentionally chose, essentially, distasteful literature for this group of boys so that they wouldn't want to read them. When a few parents questioned the teacher about it she said that she chose those books because those boys were so "talented" that they should be able to read whatever she chose. She then continued to say that obviously they weren't so bright because they couldn't manage to "comprehend" her choices. (And whenever I asked my son what he was reading last year, he always said, "I don't know. Some story about princesses/ponies/slumber parties." He would never answer the written reading assessments because the books were "disgusting", lol.)

This is something for parents to watch out for. Others have also experienced a form of this and brought it forward as well. Whereas that teacher may have chosen books about "princess/ponies/slumber parties" which did not match the interests, plans, or growth trajectory of her students, others have similarly assigned selections which were not appropriate for their classroom audiences of readers, including highly s*xualized books and dystopias. It seems to be a type of intellectual hazing.

While it is important for students to stretch themselves and read works written in a voice from a different culture, point of view, and knowledge base, allowing student choice within a genre may ultimately be best practice.

I'm not sure I understand why the chances for accelerated work are necessarily all over for next year - this year's not over. If you after-schooled with the concepts that were missed first semester while the sub was in charge, is there a possibility your dd could test into a higher level of math next year? Will there be any more MAPS testing this year?

polarbear

Our district uses the Winter MAP test to determine eligibility for accelerated curriculum for the next school year. Students with 95% or above qualify for services. 99% in reading and 91% in math does not qualify. Therefore, she will be in a regular classroom.

I have requested some feedback from DD's teacher on this but I've yet to hear anything (even after 3 days).

My problem with the way Math is taught is the teacher sends out a weekly update with the math topic. However, because our district is heavily into ability grouping, what I've discovered is that the update has no correlation to what is being taught in the groups. And there is no homework (the district is very strict on this policy) so it's impossible for me as a parent to be involved unless my DD tells me every detail of what the group talked about which can be difficult because as I stated earlier she is one of the youngest kids in the class and doesn't always have a handle on what is exactly going on. I now feel this is 100% why DD slipped on the test. 2nd grade math is trivial, it makes no sense otherwise. Case in point, 2 weeks ago DD was out for 4 days with severe flu (first absence the entire school year). I asked for work to be sent home with her younger sister who was able to return to school 1 day earlier because she was better. We got a packet but it was all language, only 1 math sheet with very simple problems (count simple money, low level addition, etc.) Took DD 1 minute to do and nothing else. I have no idea what happened with math that week. We just worked on more concepts at home.

This school system seems very hostile to parent involvement. As I mentioned earlier, no volunteers, almost no homework (especially math), and very few papers that ever come home. It is difficult to get responses from teachers in a timely manner. Even though DD is 99% in reading, she has no idea who the girls are in 2nd grade GATE because there is no co-mingling of the kids. We are considering moving.

It seems the earlier posts were about the lack of teaching by the substitute teacher; The current experience is with the regular teacher?

If the district was truly supportive of ability grouping they would presumably incorporate ability grouping into their communications, including the weekly update. There seems to be a disconnect or discrepancy here.

May I ask, is this a high-performing district?

This does not sound consistent with a school believing in ability grouping.

Parents can help bring about change, especially if this is a public school in the US. For example, being informed of the learning outcomes for your DC's ability group in math, having a syllabus or schedule of lessons, receiving a weekly update pertaining to your DC's ability group in math.

Yes, unfortunately, it is now the regular teacher. Since school has been back in session it has been crazy. We missed so much because of the polar vortex and 1 week of flu, it has been very hard for me to get a handle on what's been happening. Everything is now different. DD says there are reading groups and she got moved but she doesn't read any assigned book, only does worksheets. She got moved to a different math group as well. All groups have generic names (red, blue, green, yellow).

The classrooms are each ability grouped. Then they have a special G&T classroom for each grade (with foreign language instruction and accelerated curriculum). The district gives MAP 3 times per year and CogAT and then decides where students will be for the next year. Scores on MAP of 95%+ in reading & math qualifies for inclusion in either the G&T classroom or accelerated work. A high CogAT can get you the same even without MAP scores. I have no idea how this is decided which students are put in the G&T classrooms and which are just left in the regular class.

Yes and very affluent.


Is this tracking? It seems once these kids get in the G&T classroom they stay there.


We do have a Progress report that is updated each quarter. The report shows the skills and a number of 1 to 3 is assigned (3 being mastered, 1 needs improvement). DD got all 3's on only the 1st half of the list (for the first semester). I noticed the area she bombed out on MAP math was not listed until last and I didn't expect it to already be covered on MAP so early (measurement) and completely overlooked it. DD did not know conversion of quarts, liters, ounces, kilos, etc. I was more worried about multiplication/division/fractions. So this is what we studied (which DD did say helped her on some of the test). Other than that, we get a weekly newsletter which states which Math topic they will be working on for the week, but it doesn't seem to match what DD says her group is working on.

I do feel for this teacher in that she's back to work full-time with a 3 month old at home and I don't want to be the bad parent. She has recognized DD's high reading level. DD says she's handing out "think sheets" left and right and made the kids sign contracts that they will complete work because so many are goofing off.

But I do fear that I may have a bad reputation because of my relationship with the sub last semester and word may have gotten out.

I saw some of the kids in G&T at last year's school theater production and I really want DD to be able to interact with that group. It's depressing that they go to the same school everyday but DD doesn't know any of them and I don't really understand why. It's a large district (high school has 4,000 students) and if DD would end up going to school here, I would imagine all those G&T students from all 9 elementaries would be placed in the high level classes together along with all the other super high performers (maybe ones with 99% on everything) and DD may end up lost in the competition. This is what worries me and makes me wonder if a smaller district would be better and if we should move.