Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Gifted in abstract reasoning...

what does this mean to our 10 year old dd. When she was 9 she was tested by a psych and we were told her abstract reasoning was at the post college graduate level. What does this mean for her exactly? Her MAPS testing in school has her at 80% for math - she is often bored in math, she says. Her reading is off the chart. Yet, we are learning public school is probably not an option for her anymore - as I have been posting on other threads on here about what to do about that.
So, where would you typically see this helping a child? I know what the definition is and all, but the public school acted like it was no big deal. But I am thinking this is one reason why she is acting out at school, bored, hating school, etc. She keeps saying she isn't learning, yet the school won't challenge her until they see "perfect" scores in all homework, etc. Sorry I am rambling.

Whoooo boy.

Consider that a "rough road ahead" sign. In neon.

If you are already seeing signs that your child is developing perfectionism (procrastination, task avoidance, self-handicapping, etc.) then READ WHAT YOU CAN about that phenomenon, get to know the different faces of perfectionism-- and do what you can to provide authentic challenges, recognizing that they may come OUTSIDE of school settings.

Be prepared to chart your own educational course. There aren't really very many educational settings intended for children like this. Many make promises about it, of course-- but the reality is often quite different. I say that on both sides of the equation, actually-- the reality is that HG+ children are often not at all what educators THINK gifted children are like, and that such students and their parents often have expectations of group educational settings which are simply not feasible or realistic.

If you live in a town of 100,000 for example, understand that a PG child may have just 10 individuals within that town-- of ANY age-- to which s/he can relate well as a true peer. That's also no guarantee of shared interests. Once you understand that, you begin to see why even magnet schools may not be well equipped for HG+ children in all but large urban environments.

It's not impossible, of course-- just improbable unless you find a real gem of a teacher/administrator team.

Yes, I was ticked, to say the least, when the school made that comment. I get the impression they want gifted kids to be some group of kids who are smart, mind their own business, easy to teach, and oh yeah, fit in a box. When they told me to my face that they refuse to test her and have her in the G&T program because they said they don't have one, that was another red flag. My friends oldest two are in the same district, both tested in the G&T program, and both getting at least some accommodations. They also added that her teachers were previous GT liaison teachers so why test.
Well, I already told my dd, that we are done with that school. Now, to see if this new private school will be a good fit.

I don't want you to be already thinking that it WON'T work, but-- something that you do need to be aware of is that 90% (or more-- maybe even a lot more) of "gifted" children are not like our kids on this board.

That means that no, "GT program" isn't the answer.

In fact, some gifted programs are worse (paradoxically) than no program at all. Such programs are usually best for compliant, evenly developing bright-and-moderately-gifted students who like to please teachers, and are working about a year ahead of their age-mates at most, and usually are very industrious little souls who are THRILLED to be churning out one perfect worksheet after another, or would like to tutor other children. Often the programs are about supplying MORE of the same work (sometimes even at the same level) that the standard curriculum offers.

Do have that in the back of your mind. Gifted program = caveat emptor. At least for HG+ children.

The problem arises when your child needs something BEYOND what the "GT package" comes with; many administrators just look at you when you mention that and then get annoyed that you are continuing to "bother" them when they have already made accommodations for your child.

"But your daughter is in the gifted program."

"Yes, but the work isn't sufficiently challenging/engaging/etc-- can't we do something??"

"Well, your child is in the gifted program already, though-- that IS what we do."

"aughhhhh... But what do you do when that isn't ENOUGH?"

"Well, but that is why we have a gifted program. Your child is IN the gifted program. Perhaps your child needs to try harder to explore the material?"

{thud-thud-thud}

---------------------

Again, keep an open mind and hope for the best-- but DO be alert for signs that this shift in placement hasn't had the desired effect of providing an appropriate educational placement for her.

I have to agree with Howler Monkey. I've got a 2e pg 8-yr-old ds. I'm homeschooling him now. It's the lesser of two evils from my perspective. Ds can learn at his own pace and speed.

He's been in two gifted schools - one traditional/ structured; the other more Montessori and unstructured. Neither one could accommodate him because he's not a extrinsically motivated child or a high achiever. He hated the workbooks and the drill-and-kill approach and yet detested being kept in addition with the unstructured gifted school since he couldn't mastered the timed addition facts in kindy with the math program (xtramath.org) and didn't want to stick out like a sore thumb by zooming ahead either.

The math is going to be a big problem. It's been that way for us with schools. These kids are capable of gaining knowledge by osmosis, it seems. The rate and speed of acceleration can be breathtaking and they can quickly surpass what is taught in high school or college within a very short time. So then, it's a case of what exactly do you do and, unfortunately, I don't have an answer for you at the moment except that obviously 99.9% of schools cannot cope with that kind of student.

If you have child who is very advanced in just math, then it's somewhat easier. I knew someone in high school who fell under that category. He took calculus 3 or something when he was 14-yrs-old at an Ivy, which was within close proximity. Still, that's a bit different than an 8- or 10-yr-old who is capable of doing that or more across multiple subjects.

Well, this is where we are...since I tried homeschooling just last year, and it really wiped me out, we are going to try the one private school that we think would be the best for her. I am not opposed to homeschooling again if I need to, but she really wants to go to school, and be with kids, that is something that no matter how good of a job I do/did, it wasn't going to make a difference.
Yes, I am catching myself telling her that we will "try" this, although first she has to shadow, then be accepted. In the meantime, I am going to keep her home from school, and give some homeschooling a try.
I totally understand the GT program dilemma. I can see that being a problem. Luckily, one of our neighbors teaches at the private school, and his son is gifted, in math, and he was able to tell me how they are helping him. And yes, they go deep, not lots of worksheets. So, after all the research, I am going to give it a try, but am well aware that it just may not work.
I love the idea I got earlier about writing a contract, talking to my dd right away about how sometimes we just have to do things we don't want to do, etc.
You guys are a wealth of information, and I feel so much better "talking" to you all. Any more suggestions, please feel free.

Gifted in abstract reasoning for a child would mean that they are beyond the concrete operations stage and can reason symbolically at a younger age than is typical. I assumed you are at least passingly familiar with Piaget's developmental stages. One of the most obvious manifestations to me would be a facility with algebraic concepts and applications at her age well beyond the typcial "elementary algebra" included in many public school curriculums. Another manisfestation to me would be the general ability to synthesize principles from knowledge in one domain and apply it to another domain indepedently.

However, I can't say that I know what it means for a 9 year-old to have "abstract reasoning at the post college graduate level." I am not familiar with tests for children that provide graduate school level norms/measurements. Perhaps it would be worth the loss of privacy to share your results with the school so that they can see just how extreme your DD's situation is. Keep in mind that the school may not be that impressed by off the chart MAP reading scores because they likely see top scores here and there and MAP is not generally used beyond 10th grade. Your DD's ability is 6+ years beyond that. It may be worthwhile to consult with the psych who tested your DD as to the significance of her extreme ability as well as best practices to cushion any psychological impacts.