Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion The SAT

Back to the OP's question - yes, you can prep but it only helps so much. Though folks here disagree with me on a lot of things, I think that the answers indicate that most folks plateau on the SAT score at some point, which means that prep can't get most kids to a 2400.

I think that everyone here can be "right" with their views of the SAT and ACT - different folks, different learning styles, different test-taking abilities means that what is easier for one person might not work that way for another.

A few folks said that the math sections didn't show their kid's true ability, and we saw that too. However, it showed my eldest to be good at math, even though that is her weakest subject. She is happy that she will have completed her college math requirement this semester with Calculus I (though she may take Statistics - she sees the value in that for any major). With a 730 on the SAT math and a 35 on ACT math, the mailings from engineering schools came rolling in - and we had a good laugh about her studying engineering (DH and I are both engineers).

DD18 would say that she preferred the ACT because she got a comparable or better score on it than the SAT. She studied for the SAT while she did not study for the ACT. And though she finished all sections on both tests, she would say that the ACT is cranking out straightforward problems at a rapid rate - something she is very good at doing. I realize that the speed thing is not a strength for everyone, but it is just part of the test. However she is nowhere near PG so she doesn't have the potential of many kids here. As I have said before, my kids would have higher batting averages if they were just a bit faster to first base, but you typically have to manage with your strengths and weaknesses with the rules we are given in many situations throughout life.

IQ tests are timed too now.

The SAT and ACT are supposed to predict (with error) the grades a student will get in college and whether he or she will graduate. A recent study found that two of the ACT sections, Science and Reading, have no incremental predictive ability over the English and Mathematics sections

http://www.nber.org/papers/w17119
Improving College Performance and Retention the Easy Way: Unpacking the ACT Exam
Eric P. Bettinger, Brent J. Evans, Devin G. Pope
NBER Working Paper No. 17119
Issued in June 2011
NBER Program(s): ED LS
Colleges rely on the ACT exam in their admission decisions to increase their ability to differentiate between students likely to succeed and those that have a high risk of under-performing and dropping out. We show that two of the four sub tests of the ACT, English and Mathematics, are highly predictive of positive college outcomes while the other two subtests, Science and Reading, provide little or no additional predictive power. This result is robust across various samples, specifications, and outcome measures. We demonstrate that focusing solely on the English and Mathematics test scores greatly enhances the predictive validity of the ACT exam.

Oh great.

slight hijack—

At what age are some of you finding your kids ready to tackle/try the SAT or ACT?
What kind of testing had the completed before taking this on.

My DS is in 5th grade, we really don't have anything planned for the next few years.
The school he is going to says they would like all their students to try it before they finishes 8th grade.

I think it's that they have "little or no additional" predictive ability, over and above what you already get from the English and Mathematics subtest.

Science and/or Reading considered in isolation may well have high predictive ability.

Yes, you summarized the paper better than I did.

Somehow Tortuga's post is prior to mine, but didn't actually show up on the board until later. Tortuga, you did a good job of stating what I was trying to say.

As for the Math and English ACT scores meaning more - some schools use only those two sections. I know that is what Pitt did when my eldest applied there (and that actually helped her to receive some merit aid). I don't really understand it, since I would think that Reading (comprehension) would be more important than grammar. It seems that comprehension is more important on the SAT - many schools only look at CR+M, or give less weight to Writing.

As for when to take the SAT - my kids did that in 7th grade. We are in an "SAT area" so we didn't even consider the ACT. One reason I might hesitate to use the ACT for a younger kid is that the pre-HS scores do not get wiped off of their account. With the SAT, scores for pre-HS kids get wiped away in June or July unless you make a specific request to keep the score.

thanks for the reply NSG.

You say the ACT scores stick. Is that true even if done through a Talent Search?

Is there a way to prep students for this? Is there a way to teach them to respond to these types of questions?