Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Neurotypical Giftedness?

When reading messages on this forum and most others I can find that cover exceptionally and profoundly gifted kids, it seems that there's a very high correlation between high IQ and a diagnosis of autism, sensory processing disorder, hyperactivity, oppositional defiant disorder or other atypical neurological condition.

The fact that so many gifted child have sensitivity issues aligns well with Dabrowski's Overexcitabilities and Theory of Positive Disintegration. However, it runs completely contrary to our local school, which assures me that it's not normal for gifted kids to have emotional or behavior problems.

I'm curious how many people here have exceptionally or profoundly gifted children (IQ >= 145, percentile >99.9%) who otherwise consider their children typical neurologically, socially and behaviorally.

Neurotypical IQ? single choice
	<=99.9%, neurologically typical
	<=99.9%, overexcitable but otherwise typical
	<=99.9%, neurologically atypical (autism spectrum, etc.)
	>99.9%, neurologically typical
	>99.9%, overexcitable but otherwise typical
	>99.9%, neurologically atypical (autism spectrum, etc.)
Votes accepted starting: 04/16/13 11:25 PM
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Synaptic storm, I think Dabrowski's overexcitabilities are real - but that they are a great big distraction that stand in the way of many gifted kids who really are 2e getting the help they need. The first question is whether the child's environment is appropriate, if its not, you can't blame the child for not coping. If the environment is reasonable then the next question is - are the "over excitabilities" impairing the child's functioning/daily life? If not, then yes you have over excitablities. If they are crossing the line into making life really difficult for the child then you need to consider that the child is not completely neurotypical.

I do know a lot of highly gifted kids who are 2e. Mine are. But I think this is in part because people seek help when their child is either way off the curve or has problems - either the problems that are directly bothering the child/parent, or the parent can't figure out why school doesn't "get" their kid. People seek support groups like this because of exceptionality...

In my own family my child with Aspergers, sensory issues, CAPD, dyslexia, and more is my child with the lowest IQ. She's MG at best. My HG+ child does have ADHD, but she's way, WAY less 2e than her sister (more gifted, less neurologically atypical). My youngest child is not yet tested, so far she has some significant physical health issues but developmentally she's looking likely to be at least HG+ and not likely to have ADHD, she absolutely is not on the spectrum. So in our family the most neurologically atypical is also least gifted, and the one that looks likely to be most gifted also looks likely to be most neurotypical.

The most gifted child I know personally is neurotypical but clearly does have over excitabilities. Most of the very gifted children I know personally, if they are also neurologically atypical are not dramatically so, with adequate support (and for most it truly is is more about good support than major intervention) they'll grow up to be seen as no more than quirky.

To me mine is neurotypical. He is a bit harder work, rather energetic and a bit sensitive but not to the degree it is a problem. He is >99.9 %

This is very interesting. I will be following this thread with great interest. Mine beautiful DS is Aspie and >99.9. I've always thought his autism kind of unlocked his genius, hsmarts usually smart. In a incredible way that other children with similar IQ's are not. I also believe that 2e children's tests are often lowballed because of the delays at play. In our case we have a very WPPSI profile but simply because he ceilinged it. Would be very different when we retest I believe.

Minichi - i definitely think my aspie's scores are suppressed. But so is her functioning... I would not be surprise to see them rise, or if they didn't.... I do think she's likely to function in some ways at the level of her peak areas (solidly gifted in some areas), but also to always have weaknesses and struggles.

I have one son who has Asperger's. The school did not test with a WISC or SB instead used RAIS. The RAIS indicated that he was Mildly Gifted. But between it not being a WISC and his Aspergers and anxiety I wonder if he would test higher if privately tested. And he is pretty much Atypical but currently functioning really well.

My younger son tested profoundly gifted and for the most part neurotypical. But he does have some intermittent palilalia which right now we are just watching.

I don't believe your school... every gifted adult/child that I've ever known (myself included) is quirky in some way or another.

Maybe the issue is that the school sees it at being "emotional and behavioural problems." Sometimes it's just quirkiness. That adds another element to the concept... at what point is it actually a problem, Vs. simply being differently wired than the mainstream (ie a compatibility difference with the environment or typical expectations)?

I'm glad you posted this--I have read everything I've come across but still am confused about this issue. Our DD9 has been suggested to have a variety of things but if you actually look at whether she meets the criteria (and several psychologists have basically said that they're more guidelines/a concept than criteria per se (despite what it actually says in the DSM)) I think PDD-NOS would be correct. But after reading the James Webb Misdiagnosis book and some popular articles (e.g., about scientists/ mathematicians and how many of them are not 'normal' in terms of behavior) I really wonder whether this isn't part of the current trend to diagnose anyone who isn't within a very narrow range of NT behavior. On the other hand, I actually met a PG kid last year and also our nephew (now in high school) both seem completely NT to me. So I think it can happen LOL

I think that most gifted people are NT.

Misdiagnosed, maybe, but generally NT as long as they are socialized with an appropriate peer group.

That's my completely unsupported opinion.

My DD11 is NT. Of course, we've also managed to get her into appropriate learning environments, for the most part. So, I should say, she's NT for someone 2 years older. I'm sure if she was compared to agemates rather than grademates she may look less NT, although only quirky and not 2E.

I have to agree with Dbat that there is a current trend to diagnose anyone who isn't within a very narrow range of NT behavior. I've seen this in action at all points on the IQ curve. Everyone has quirks and sensitivities and different degrees to which they are expressed. Which is not to say, of course, that there aren't many people with very legitimate diagnoses and disabilities. But maybe it's more what CCN says, that it's a matter of what people see as a problem vs. being differently wired. Pathologizing quirks verses accepting that some people just think and function differently.

I do think, though, that the school is wrong to think that it is not normal for gifted kids to have emotional or behavior problems. I would think that emotional and behavior issues arise from so many different factors that you couldn't possibly make this statement.