Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Underestimating and Explore Test Results

My DS11 has been in a pull-out gifted program since 1rst grade and does well in school both grade-wise and behaviorally. He doesn't talk about being bored, though I noticed he does much more for his most rigorous subject, science. Not only is DS11 shy about his abilities but too often he doesn't believe he's smart. A couple of years ago when the option of subject advancement was presented to him (by us) he wasn't interested.We've always believed in the let-the-child-dictate-the-pace philosophy and thus far, everything's been fine.
When he took the EXPLORE test, one of the goals was to feel comfortable taking tests without pressure. He doesn't do well with timed tests but somehow knowing it was above-level and therefore expectations were different made it not only an easier experience than the EOG tests but he came out smiling.

His (5th grade) scores were:

English: 18
Math: 17
Reading: 22
Science: 21
Composite: 20

These scores are not enough for him to be recognized by DukeTip, but they're quite good from what I've read. Not only were we a bit surprised but now we're thinking maybe we haven't been taking him seriously enough. Should we continue to let him dictate how much and how fast he wants to learn? It's been our way so far, but recently he participated in Odyssey of the Mind competition and he came alive! I've never seen him so engaged.

Thanks in advance for whatever wisdom and insight you have to offer...

Hello, I am very new to this so please excuse my question if it was already in the thread .

Can anyone tell me if the EXPLORE sample test (English Test, for instance)is all what they have in the real test? It was quite short. There are only 10 questions. If that is it, do you know how they grade? If my daughter did 9/10 correctly, what is the grade?

Thank you so much!

KADmom,

Those are really good score. Those indicate that he is >90 percentile of average 8th graders. Your DS sounds like a perfectionist and does not want to make mistakes. May be he is worried that he may not do as well after grade skipping.

Anyway, we are more than half way of the school year and the middle school usually offers more opportunity for subject acceleration. Some schools have pre-AP classes which are 1 grade above level and some schools have TAG classes that are 1 1/2 grade above level. You should inquire what your middle school and high school provides and go from there.

May be you should discuss with the middle school counselor to see what they can do for your DS.

Peter,

Thanks so much for responding. You've given me some good ideas! And you nailed it: he is definitely a perfectionist and wants to get As..though I was pleased to see he received a B this year and handled it really well. There's also the social aspect. He's known his classmates since kindergarten and his friends are in the AIG program as well.

I do like the idea of talking to his middle school. Thank you!

One more insight you helped me with: his lowest sub score on the Explore was the rhetorical thinking section. I would bet that his perfectionism, his not wanting to be wrong, was at play.

Those are very, very good scores. And I think what stands out to me is that the lower (though still high) scores are in English and Math - two areas that test more specific things that need to be learned. His science and reading really show overall intelligence and comprehension. I don't think it's bad to let him be child-led, but I do think that knowing his abilities, it's okay to also push a little. We met with our own ds10's 5th grade teacher, GT teacher and principal after we received his 4th grade EXPLORE scores. No one doubted he was a smart kid, but showing them concrete evidence that he could do more really helped. This year, in 5th, his regular teacher and gifted teacher have pushed him and held him to higher expectations. He's not lazy, and he's not really a perfectionist, but he is just happy to do whatever and move on to playing, or ESPN, or whatever catches his fancy. Having them say, "I know you can do better," or, "from you, I'd like to really see a longer report, and more analysis," etc helps. We don't force him by any means, but we do encourage him more and push him more. I think part of it is just age and maturity and he's grown a lot this year, but I do think it's important to let them know that they have a lot of potential and you want to see them reach it. For my own ds, he has a lot of free time because elementary here still has very little homework, so we do expect part of that to be spent in something productive - doing AoPS, learning to type, exploring science websites, writing a story, etc. We don't make it "do this because you're smart." We expect ALL of the family to engage in learning.. that's just a given. What changes because of his test scores is the level we expect, if that makes sense.
What is the curriculum like in middle school? Will it still be a pull-out GT or full-time? For our three older children, the transition to MS full-time gifted provided a lot more enrichment than our pull-out elementary, and they seemed to step up to the challenge. Congrats to him on the awesome scores!

What does rhetorical thinking mean?

Thank you, momtofour! It certainly does make sense and recently, I've found the same to be true with our DS. And congratulations to your DS for taking the test and showing his strengths!

As for the middle school, they only have the gifted program half the year and it seems to be an "extra" class. I'm not sure what that means yet, but I sure wish our schools did have full-time gifted classes. Part of my frustration with our school system is that they don't cluster according to ability and so a lot of time is spent going over and over the material.
We've always figured we could "make up the difference" at home but now I'm starting to think I've done a disservice by not being a stronger advocate. There's always now, though.

Xiangbaobao,

The definition given by the test form is as follows:

Rhetorical Skills--your understanding of the use of strategy, organization, and style in writing.

I agree with momtofour. Leaving the pace entirely in the child's hands can be problematic when they're not fully aware of their own capabilities, selling themselves short, and not believing in themselves. This becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy... not believing in themselves, they don't seek challenge, and failing to seek challenge, they fail to achieve anything significant, which validates the original lack of belief.

What they need then is for someone to recognize the disconnect between ability and outcomes, give them a metaphorical shove, and through much kicking and fussing, see them through the delivery of a notable success. This success then negates the original lack of belief, and fosters a newfound confidence which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy in the other direction... believing in themselves, the children seek out challenges, and overcome these challenges, which reinforces that belief.