Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Absence Seizures, ADHD, or GT and lost in thought?

Our school thinks DS8 is having absence seizures. He zones out for a few seconds, then resumes his work.

I used to do exactly the same thing. I've googled, and learned that 70% of absence seizures are outgrown by the time the child is 18. This would fit.

HOWEVER... one of the criteria for it to be a seizure is that the individual is not responsive during the episode, and DS (as was the case with me) is always responsive.

I'm going to take him back to the doctor (yet again! sigh), but meanwhile my question to all of you is...

Is there anyone out there whose child has a EEG confirmed seizure disorder diagnosis with that child being reachable during seizures (i.e. is there such a thing as a "half seizure" ...or something similar).

Thanks

DD's possible absence seizures - which seemed at the time to last forever - actually were no more than a couple of seconds. She would then shake her head and rub her eyes. When we asked "Are you ok?" or the like she would respond with "Huh? What? Oh yeah, I'm ok." She never experienced one while hooked up to an EEG so they were never able to confirm if she was actually having seizures. They did pick up "discharge" during her in patient EEG, though.

We were asked if she responded to touch but we realized they never really lasted long enough to find out. I have a memory of her at about maybe 4 staring into space and not responding when I touched her cheek one time but I can't recall any other times when they lasted long enough to try it.

Consider yourself lucky that your school is coming up with the idea of absence seizures. My DD's kindergarten teacher just said she was looking away, not paying attention, being disrespectful and refusing to answer when spoken to. Combined with seeming to "go away" when reading you would think someone could have connected to dots to at least have us get her checked...

Good luck. If this is occurring 3 or more times a week they may want to do a 24 or 48 hour EEG to see what's going on. DD really didn't mind having them. She even wore them to school for a couple of days last June.

CCN, our dd11 has a seizure disorder (although she's been seizure-free for several years). We didn't realize that she'd had seizures until they progressed past absence seizures and she was having seizures that were more obvious (including auras before the seizure, convulsing, and falling asleep to the point of not being able to be woken up after). Even when she had those more complicated seizures, it took us awhile to realize they were actually seizures - the actual duration of a seizure, although it may seem like forever if you're with your child and aware that they are having a seizure, does not last long - it's over in the blink of an eye. Absence seizures and partial complex seizures are seizures in which a person doesn't lose consciousness, and their eyes don't close - they simply seem to stare or blank out for a short period of time. They also don't necessarily happen frequently enough to be really noticable - my dd had periods where she had "frequent" seizures (for her), but we never noticed more than one per day and usually never more than a few per month. Chances are we were missing more, but they weren't ever frequent enough to catch on a typical 45-minute EEG. She has a confirmed seizure disorder based on our description of symptoms to her neurologist - and that's it. Her seizures were random enough we felt there was a good possibility that if she had one of the 24 hour or longer EEGs that also might not catch them.

When she had an absence seizure - it was very *very* quick, over so quickly that it might seem she was responsive simply because she was responsive after it was over. The smaller partial complex seizures were more obvious because they caused her to fall asleep and she was very agitated when they were happening - but we didn't see that until after she'd had the larger seizures which resulted in convulsions - because that's what we understood seizures to be. We saw the other seizures once her neurologist had explained the different types and what to look for to us.

I'm actually very surprised a teacher would suggest your child has absence seizures, simply because most people aren't familiar with them or wouldn't think of that right away.. soooo.. that tends to make me think it is something worth checking into.

Best wishes,

polarbear

ps - I just thought of a few more things you could ask your ds' teachers about. Sometimes seizures have triggers - flashing lights are one example, can't think of any others right now, but the idea is that a specific type of trigger might be tied to seizures in an individual, so when you have a child with a history of seizures you try to ferret out what might trigger them. You could ask his teachers when the episodes happened that look like seizures, what he was doing or what was going on in the classroom etc when they happened. With seizures, if you kept a diary over time, you might see some common threads.

Another thing you can ask his teachers is what specifically does he look like during the zoning out - is he staring straight ahead, is he still, does he lick his lower lip (odd question... our neurologist asked that!), any kind of detail. Also ask how he behaves after - it sounds like he goes straight back into his work without anything appearing to have impacted him, but he ever appears to seem tired, or confused, etc, have them let you know.

And last thing - I would have them ask him if what he was thinking or if he noticed that he seemed to blank out for a second. Our dd, by the time she was 8 years old, could give us a good description of how she felt immediately before her seizures - and she was having auras (seeing lights and tingly feelings in her legs and arms) that we might not have known about if we hadn't asked.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Thanks... I appreciate the responses.

Pemberley - I'd love to get an EEG done, actually, just to be sure. I think DS would be compliant, although he has an extremely sensitive scalp, so I'm not sure how that would work out.

Polarbear - it's interesting that you mention auras - both DD and I have had them. May I ask how your daughter has been seizure free? Is it a medication that's working, or has she outgrown them? The episodes stopped for me in high school (I was never diagnosed with anything... no one ever noticed... I just used to periodically "zone out"). Apparently I outgrew it, whatever it was.

The school sent me a video of DS having an episode. He was working quite diligently at a frustrating task, and about 4 minutes in, gazed at the work of the student next to him for about 20 seconds, then returned to his work (and seemed exactly as he had been before). There were no obvious signs of any kind - he just looked lost in thought, and sort of blinked a couple of times. His face and body remained completely normal. It reminded me exactly of the way it used to happen for me.

I'm going to call the doctor on Monday and show her the video and see what she thinks.

It was sort of funny, though, because at one point in the video one of DS's classmates walked past his desk, paused and stared at something, lost in thought, and then carried on her way. How do you know the difference between a seizure and a child pausing to think for a moment? It can be so hard to know.

I suppose it's good that DS's ADHD has him "under a microscope" because his behaviours get noticed...

If he does have to have an EEG this could help. When DD was being wired for her inpatient test she asked to borrow my iPhone. I thought she was going to play a game on it and handed it over. Instead she turned on the camera, set it to video, reversed the camera and filmed the process so she could see what was going on behind her. As long as her head stayed still the tech was fine with her moving her arms as needed. She was so interested in filming and watching the process I don't think she even noticed any sensation on her scalp.

Both outpatient EEG's were pretty simple but trying to get the glue out of her hair and off her scalp following the inpatient was quite the chore. Different type of adhesive I guess since the wires had to stay in place for several days. This was where a sensitive scalp could be an issue...

That's awesome - thank you for that suggestion He'd probably like that. He's interested in science stuff (he's my "molecules questions" kid) so he'd probably think it's cool (electrodes reading his brain). My only challenge will be explaining why he's having it done and not his sister. (He doesn't know about his diagnoses... He knows he's seen lots of doctors, but I'm not sure if he realizes that most kids haven't done all the testing he has). He's funny... clever and innocent all rolled into one.

CCN, I'm curious-- why haven't you told him his diagnoses? This might be an opportunity to do that.

DeeDee

DeeDee - I don't want him to think he's any less capable than anyone else.

I was going to, actually... a few weeks ago. At the insistence of the school we took him back to another doctor - this one a provincially renowned psychiatrist who specializes in ASD. He said our DS doesn't show enough signs of ASD to warrant a full assessment, but definitely has ADHD. I thought, ok... enough doctors have agreed on the ADHD, so maybe I should tell him. I had a window of opportunity (just DS and I at home alone) but felt that I couldn't do something like that without DH's blessing (he was at work). I lost the window (DD came home, domestic chaos resumed, lol) and I've since lost my nerve.

I will tell him, but the moment has to be right...

IMHO the disability conversation can be like the conversation for an adopted child; you want to make it not a big reveal, but something he later feels he's always known about himself, like brown eyes. We thought we would wait until DS could handle the news; but at 8 he had already intuited that he was a terrible person for not behaving like other people, and so much damage was done by our not getting out in front of that. He is still coming to terms with his disability, but he knows a lot about it, and that's been useful for him in thinking about himself.

So: just a thought.
DeeDee