Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Motivated vs non-motivated

Yeah-- I feel that the research on this one is so strong that we basically ONLY punish for what does not take place intrinsically.

We don't offer rewards as inducements. Sometimes we will 'treat' in a "just because" kind of way. But that isn't the same thing.

I take privileges away for infractions-- but they aren't things which are "earned" with behavior that I want.

It's a subtle distinction, but it does serve to not dampen intrinsic motivation in those areas where it exists. It also tends to foster self-regulation rather than dependence on external rewards.

Well I guess my question is then how do you encourage intrinsic motivation in a task that the child is not interested in doing. Howler mentioned music lessons, for example. Another example: homework/ "boring" schoolwork.

I agree with you 100% (well 99%)...

Although this does not apply when your child is 4.5 and STILL has not potty trained....then you don't care how many m&ms you have to give out (2 for pee and 6 for a poop) and for how long. It really won't bother you if you need to send a 1 pound bag home with your daughter in law from his wedding. You just want the pee and poop in the toilet. (not speaking from experience here...twice...but they faded out the m&ms naturally within a reasonable time).

To my thinking, the most direct way is to draw attention, in an age and temperament appropriate manner, to natural consequences of doing vs not doing X. I think Dude and others alluded to this. This may mean letting your child fail, provided the consequences aren't too disastrous. Behaviours that are truly important/have meaningful consequences in either direction will tend to elicit a motivating effect.

On the flip side of the coin, I think there is also value in learning when *not* to push forward in low urgency and importance tasks. If a 1/2% assignment is totally valueless and occupies a full day to complete, I can see an argument being made for not doing the assignment at all and substituting an interesting personal interest project instead. Life is simply too precious to waste on nonsense.

I'll give a trite example:

My DS16mo refuses to sit for his bath. He's too young to reason with in a sophisticated way, so I bought a bath mat and rubber faucet guard and join him, either in the tub or with my hands next to him. When he gets overly boisterous, I let him do a controlled fall, which scares him enough to buy some more reasonable play for another few weeks. He doesn't get hurt, I'm not over taxed, and he still has the freedom to enjoy baths in his own preferred way. Great. The global issue is safety, not sitting.

This could be a bumper sticker for me (if I didn't despise the things):

I <3 stochastic extrinsic rewards & deterministic penalties

We have tried to offer no rewards since DD was born under this same presumption. However, we are extremely tempted (and occasionally give in) to offer rewards as it works insanely well.
Even better than rewards for DD? Competition. Is that horrible? She is so incredibly competitive that we go through the day competing with her to get her to do the things she needs to do. If we want her to go potty we just say "I need to go potty and I'm going first!" or "sissy is going to go before you!" she laughs and runs to be first. For reading she starts screaming, "Aaaahhh MOM, Giraffe (her stuffed animal) is READING!!!" then she speaks in a deep voice for Giraffe saying he has found a book and is going to read without her. She then lets out a horrific scream and runs and tries to find a book and read before her stuffed animal to which she expects me to assume the role of the deep-voiced mammal. If we are playing a board game, I play full-on and we seriously get into it. It's like this the. whole. day. I worry what I am instilling in her with all of this competition. She was the instigator of the competition but I still feel like I am encouraging it by taking advantage of her insane need to compete.
She attends a Montessori in the afternoons for a few hours each day and of course they are totally non-competitive... so who knows what happens there.

What are you're thoughts on this?
Feel free to be brutally honest... but also offer suggestions.
Is being extremely competitive a negative or positive trait?

FWIW DD turned 3 towards the end of December

Thinking back on my school days, my primary extrinsic motivator was getting better grades than my classmates.

I wasn't interested in getting straight A's. Just in beating everyone else.

Which is why college was such a downer.

In all honesty, I love that.

Is there any chance she's balancing the total lack of Montessori competition with additional competitiveness at home? It reminds me of an old SNL sketch where a manager is so annoyed by the slow drawl of his boss that he demands that all his subordinates speak like auctioneers to compensate. I'd be curious to hear her teachers' feedback.

Maybe the initiative behind the competitiveness is praiseworthy on its own. Framing can be a wonderful tool. It might help balance out her tendencies (if you're concerned) if you can redirect some of the external competition to internal competition geared around effort and outcome jointly.

A statement like, "It's wonderful to see you so excited to read! I love reading with you. Can you read farther ahead/a harder book than yesterday?" might shift the locus of competition inward at times. Giraffe could be a straw man if ever she gets frustrated with harder material.

Your daughter sounds adorable! I'm a bit bloodthirsty myself.

My husband agrees. We are both quite competitive which can be very funny when it comes to a simple Saturday game of tennis. He says that competition was and is a huge motivator for him. I was just curious as to what others would think of it. I'm glad to hear though that someone else agrees that competition isn't a horrible motivator... I was feeling a bit guilty.
DD is a hoot, I have a list of quotes from her that I've started writing down.
GREAT idea on trying to shift the competition inward.