Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Help with Stanford Binet scores

Thanks Cricket, that was helpful because it looks like he was given the WJ III achievement. It's interesting because all of his scores indicate that he achievement levels are one grade or higher than his actual grade (1st) but his "percentile scores" seem "average"... I wonder if the percentiles are based on age and not grade? I do think the school psych mentioned the last he was given achievement testing his scores were so high that they couldn't see problems so this time she would compare him seven year olds rather than with his first grade peers (6 year olds)...

Anyway, here are his scores if it is helpful, he is in the middle of first grade:

Letter word ID: 2.9 grade equivalent

Reading Fluency: 1.8 grade equivalent

Broad Math: 2.5 grade equivalent
(he constantly complains that he is bored in math class and hates it because of that, he has also been chastised and has gotten in trouble for working ahead... this is one of the reasons why I would like to see him get some gifted classes/gifted pull-out or something b/c he is beginning to hate math because he actually loves it and needs to go faster or be more challenged.)

Math calculation: 2.3 grade equivalent

Math fluency: 2.0 grade equivalent (fluency always is a problem)

Spelling: 1.5 grade equivalent (this is consistently his worse "subject" - in school, on the wais last year, on the SB-V - he scores really low compared to how does everywhere else but (again another indicator of dyslexia/dysgraphia) but yet he is still scoring average/on-grade-level so people seem to brush it off)

Passage comprehension: 2.0 grade equivalent

Applied Problems: 2.3 grade equivalent

Word Attack: 2.2 grade equivalent

Broad Reading: 2.4 grade equivalents (really surprises me)


His SB V FISQ score is 120 and I read here: http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/highly_profoundly.htm gifted is 124 on SB-V so he missed it by 4 points (Not because of his true intelligence but because of his working memory and processing AGAIN!) But I read here: http://www.brainy-child.com/experts/iq-score-confusion.shtml that gifted on SB-V is 120. I am not sure what my son's school's position on qualifying SB-V scores for their program.

I do not think my son is profoundly gifted but I do think he is definitely "gifted" and needs both some sort of help (like something is wrong such as dyslexia/dysgraphia or some sort of working memory/executive functioning disorder/deficit b/c that is getting in the way of his giftedness (and his scores) and real life functioning. I also think he needs gifted help because he is "bored" at school and the repetition and pace drives him crazy.

My quandary seems to be getting worse (and I guess this is a typical of 2e situation) ... I can't get him gifted help because SOMETHING is dragging his scores down in the WM and processing speed areas (and these scores do not seem to be just on the low side - it's a big dip! I kind-of don’t understand why educators and psychs don't seem to find it more alarming honestly) And I can't seem to get anyone to believe that he has some sort of learning obstacle because he scores so high. It's getting to be soooo frustrating. And I think I just look nuts - I look nuts for thinking he's gifted and I look nuts for thinking something is also wrong like a learning disability. But I just think his scatter between the two is so extreme and consistently extreme it means something... and we are all missing it.... And maybe that wouldn’t be a big deal in general except that I am very frightened that it is going to become a huge problem as he goes up in grades...

Been reading a number of old threads suggesting poor correspondence from WISC to SB5 on highly gifted kids. One article had research showing WISC scores were much more strongly correlated/predictive of actual HG performance (e.g. 12 year old who had recently passed a college course, scored EG on WISC but in the low 120s on SB5.)

I'm also considering a retest on WISC for DS7 as his very recent SB5 scores (also including a depressed visual-spatial ~105) and writing problems kept him from consideration for an HG program whereas a couple of GT coordinators and his WJ achievement scores and our experiences point otherwise.

The sb5 can have a "gifted composite" score calculated, which is similar to the gai in that it removes WMI.

For what it's worth my kids both score higher on the sb5, most notably in the visual spatial sections. Their verbal scores have only margin of error differences between the two tests.

Also of note the WM tests in the sb5 are different and for some people thy are easier. My eldest has a very poor working memory but does better on the sb5 style WM tests than the wisc.

This is very good information for me Mumofthree! Thanks... I will want to see the WMI on the his SB-V compared to the WISC from last year (se if he does better with one type of WM test over an another, etc...) and then I will definitely want him to a WIsC IV again this year. I will also want to push for getting that "gifted composite" score calculated - I strongly suspect that once the WM is removed he will be pretty squarely in the "gifted" category and hopefuly I can start getting him some services to address his gifted needs.

Oh cool! But I don't understand this part: " = 0.932Sum + 34.8" ... Does that mean I add up all of those subtests that you list then multiply the total by .932 and then add 36.4?

Oh nice you have software.... My son is 7 - he was exactly 7 years and 4 months old... he is in first grade becasue he just missed the September 1st cut-off.

I can list his scores for you... I'd like to calculate it myself so that I can say "well I did the calculation based on his equation and this is what I came up with for his gifted composite score." So I would still like to understand how the equation works...

Well you were close .... I get 125 using that equation... Bummer I mean bummer particularly in light of a strict 130 cut-off.

I can even begin to calculate his WJ III achievment but he is only working one grade level ahead, not two really (a few close to grade 3 here and there but mostly just one grade level ahead) so I am assuming that does nto qualify him for anything either.

In doing his scores I realize it is not just his working memory... his visual spatial skills are also very low ... Again, they were also very low last year in the WISC and I thought they would go up with his vision therapy. Of course I can't really measure how much he improved in either area, if at all, because I am having trouble comparing the two different tests.

Oh well... it is what it is I suppose.

Ooops I posted before I saw this... Thank you very much. Can I ask what district you are in? That story about the 129 was harsh! I don't think our district (our school really) is that harsh but I can see that even with a friendly, flexible administration he doesn't qualify to get any gifted services...

Thanks so much for all of your help! I am thankful he is very bright and having a much better experience this school year than last. I will just keep plugging along trying to figure out the working memory/executive function issues and such and hope he evens out more as he ages and continues with vision and occupational therapy.

I was told last year (by a different school in the district) that the district cut-off for gifted is 130 on WISC IV (we never discussed other tests and if they are different b/c I was told that *the* test they use is the WISC) and is state mandated. I was also told by the same psych that they allow in as low as 127 with appropriate achievement scores.

Now, we are in a new school in the same district (and this school is much more laid back, friendly, accomodating and much less 'by the book' than the last school). They also said the cut-off for WISC is 130 (I have no idea what it is for SB-V so not entirely sure it is the same but ...probably). And they told me that "it isn't just scores" - that they have a gifted teacher come in to obseerve and teach the kids 4 times over the year. When they told me this, they said it in a way (during my sons IEP) that made it seem like this brings more children in not less and that they wouldn't let DS' 'close-but-not-quite-scores' keep him out. This was the feeling they conveyed. Then I realized (and as someone pointed out here) this approach could be used as a way to keep even qualifyng socres out ... (sort of 'yeah he's gifted but he has too many issues or isn't a good rep for the program) - just because they put a positive face on it doesn't mean much. So I realized I can't feel too comfortable and it is very leikely it is not easy to get him in with any borderline scoring and the fact that he amy be brilliant verbally but don't ask him to write or tell you his "left from his right" Ha ha! Fortunately his vocab and speaking abilities do make most educators stop and comment on how intelligent he is so he doesn't 'look' too bad off but he sure doesn't look gifted when he has to write and every number and letter is backwards or up-side-down, copy any any kind of picture or shape, or tell you which is his left hand LOL - poor kid A friend of my once commented (way before I got any diagnosis or anything) "Your DS is astoundingly smart but can't seem to even write his name... it is so odd." Yes, yes it is.