Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion intro and questions

I went back to school a few years ago to become a paralegal; our plan was that I would go back to work soon after I finished last winter. So far this hasn't happened. While I'm not against homeschooling per se, it wasn't what we had planned for the future, so it's not an easy decision to make.

We do a lot of informal "schooling" on the side, so our kids are learning stuff (that they're interested in) all the time, just not necessarily at school.

Great advice! Actually, we have spoken to someone about a neuropsych evaluation recently (at a sort-of-local center for gifted kids). He was the one who suggested we go through the school first, so we could try to get some information without having to pay for it ourselves. Depending on the results of the school evaluation, we might go back to the center for advice or additional testing. Since I'm not even exactly sure what they'll be testing, I'd rather wait until the school stuff is finished before pursuing an outside evaluation.

An analogy that I have read is that keeping an advanced kid with their agemates is like putting a third grader in a first grade class and expecting them to be mature enough at such a young age to pay attention and not be distracting. If you spend some time reading the older threads here you'll see debates about the pros and cons of acceleration. In theory it sounds good, if you go to school to learn you'll be too busy to create your own entertainment in class.

I agree with DeeDee on this. I also understand that neuropsych testing can be very expensive (we've been through it more than once). The one thing that I see as a potential downside to only going with school testing first other than what DeeDee has mentioned is that you may wait several months for the school process to unfold only to find you still don't have the answers *you* need for your ds and end up seeking out a private neuropsych eval anyway.

I'd try to do a few things right now while you're pursuing the school eval:

1) Definitely try to talk to an advocate to get a feeling for what happens in your area in situations like you are in - this may help you have an idea if your school really will be honest and helpful or try to prove that your ds is just fine and everything is rosy. They can also help you with a roadmap of what type of accommodations you can ask for or might want to ask for, what type of testing to be sure is included in the school's evaluation, etc.

2) Put everything that is happening down in writing if it's not been proposed in writing by the school. If you've had a meeting already where the school has said they will test, send an email to the team stating what you understand will happen, what is being tested, and what the time frame you expect it to take will be (if they haven't given you a time frame). You shouldn't make up that time frame from anywhere, there should be a time frame that your state requires the testing to be completed in (our state law is, I think, 60 days, and our school district policy states 45 days). If you're not aware of that deadline there is a chance the school will not rush to get anything done. Your written statement will trigger either the start of that time frame or a response from the school that you'll start with an eligibility meeting (which would then in turn start the timeframe) - I am SO totally not explaining this very well.. which is why you need to talk to an advocate lol.

3) Familiarize yourself with your rights in your school district. If the school does their evaluation and you don't agree with the findings, you should be able to request an Independent Educational Evaluation outside of the school - but you will still most likely have to choose from a certain set of evaluators which might not include who you would have chosen if you'd gone the route of a private eval yourself... so it's somewhat helpful to think through that possibility ahead of time.

4) Have you checked into whether or not your insurance would cover a private eval? As DeeDee mentioned, the school will not diagnose or treat, and if there is something going on, this is in many ways more key than simply having accommodations and a plan at school. School is just one part of our kids' lives - we need to understand what's behind behaviors at school to help our kids navigate their lives. I don't know anything about your ds, but it's possible he might need counseling, and if that was the case, the school isn't going to recommend the type, or who to go to, or even tell you it would help. If he would benefit from OT, but doesn't fall under the extremely low bar for needs set by most school districts, the school isn't going to tell you about it, they'll see your ds as "fine". Our 2e ds didn't meet the low bars for either OT or SLP set by our school district, but OT helped him quite a bit early on and he's been working with an SLP for several years and that honestly has been the one thing that has enabled him, with his specific set of challenges, navigate school and life - it's honestly been a life-changer for him - but we never would have even known to try it out if we'd relied on his school eval.

Lastly, the reason I'd pursue learning more about your private neuropsych options now is time - the school eval will take a bit of time, but it's also likely that getting an appointment with a neuropsych will also take time, and if you got to the end of your school eval and suddenly realized that you are still wanting more in terms of understanding what's up, you might not want to have to wait another 3 months again for the neuropsych appointment.

Best wishes,

polarbear

As usual DeeDee and polarbear have addressed the main issues. I will add a few things based on my experience with my DS8 in your state.

First, the school is jerking you around. Hinting that you should go see elsewhere and having as an accommodation that they can kick your son out whenever they feel like it is a violation of the law. Even if the school is a bad fit and you end up going elsewhere, they are supposed to provide him with a free and appropriate education.

Second, while the recommendations from the local gifted center to first try getting an assessment from the school might be a good plan for a gifted child, you have enough red flags for 2e that I wouldn't trust the school. In CA there are no obligations for gifted services, so id'ing him doesn't cost the school much of anything (and might help convince you to go look elsewhere). But there are strong incentives not identify a child as special needs (since that requires providing actual services), especially if the child is doing OK academically (as defined by meeting NCLB goals) and is not too disruptive in the classroom (or can be handled by having mom deal with it). It is much better to get an assessment from a trusted specialist on your payroll who can help you figure out what your child need and also help you push that through the school. Lastly, assessing 2e kids is tricky (strengths hiding weaknesses) and standard assessment plans might not show either the gifts or the weaknesses.

The principal at our school recommended I get a private assessment after asking me if we had good health insurance. I was offended/horrified (the school has 75% low income families who can't afford to drop 3k on a neuropsych assessment, although we eventually did it), but by first asking that the school do their job the way they were supposed to we lost two years. I just finished digging myself out of that particular hole (DeeDee, polarbear and everybody who answered that first post of me way back when, we finally got an IEP 2 weeks ago!).

Anyway. The legal framework in CA is formal request for an assessment (in writing!) sent to principal, copy to SpEd Head for your district. The are form letters available online. The school has 2 weeks to convene a SST meeting to draw an assessment plan (or deny the need). I would recommend talking with a specialist beforehand to make sure they assess areas of weakness properly, despite his high intelligence (as an example my AS son does OK to great on standardized speech assessments with adults, and gets very decent scores (+1SD) on the most common tests of pragmatic language -- it took going for some obscure, specialized tests and doing in depth observations of interactions "with peers in a naturalistic setting", a phrasing recommended by his private psych and inserted in the assessment plan, to unveil his issues in a way that qualified him for services). Once the plan is drawn they have 60 days to evaluate. Expect them to take every day they have (everybody is underfunded and overworked). After that an initial IEP meeting will be scheduled, where services will be proposed (or refused).

I would recommend you talk with an advocate to get a feel for your school/district, talk with a neuropsych (or that gifted center) to get a list of tests that could be used to assess your child (if it is not too late for that, since it sounds like you signed the assessment plan?), and get on the wait list for a private assessment with a neuropsych that understands 2e (if you can find one).

Lots to reply to, but here's a quick question:

I looked at Wrightslaw, found a lot of attorneys and schools, but nothing that screamed "advocate" to me. Maybe I'm overlooking them, and maybe I'm just not sure what I'm looking for. Am I looking for an attorney, or something else? (And gosh that seems like a silly question, but having a third-party advocate is new to me.)

So far we haven't filled out any paperwork, although I have some to do over the winter break. Our SST meeting in right after school goes back in session, so I don't know that we'd even have enough time to go back to the neuropsych we initially saw to get his opinion. Whew, this is all so overwhelming!

An advocate would be a local person, so not someone you could find through a national site like Wrightslaw. Ours is an "educational advocate," definitely not an attorney. She is very useful in making sure we have an understanding of what each school meeting is for, how to handle it, and what we need to accomplish. Most critically, when we feel something isn't happening that should, she works that out with the district staff BEFORE the meeting, so that during the meeting we can actually get things done.

Theoretically I would be capable of doing this job myself, I've mastered a lot by now, but for some reason it goes much better to have this kind of brokering by a third party; they listen to the advocate differently. It is also so much better for my stress level.

If insurance won't cover a private eval, talk to the most well-reputed professional's office staff and ask them about funding. Our county has two separate non-need-based programs that would fund an eval for developmental issues. One of those programs also funds some aspects of treatment. There are need-based programs too. Obviously, this too depends on where you are, but local professionals should know what to tell you; they deal with this all the time.

DeeDee

Click on "Find help in your state" at this website:

http://www.napas.org/

I'm a teacher (and former PG kid) who used to have a job where I coordinated evaluation and eligibility for disabilities (Special Ed, 504). My experience of Disability Rights Advocates is that they want what's best for the child (but don't always agree with the school about what that looks like). With your consent, they can review the file and attend meetings with you (sometimes by teleconference in our islands). They are particularly skilled at translating edubabble into language the parents can understand.

I've also been involved with Civil Rights complaints and Due Process hearings. In my experience, having an advocate is more effective than either of those routes.

One one hand, it's an unusual (male) 7 year old who can handle hours and hours of boredom, and the placement issues must be fixed. If homeschooling isn't an option (and it's a very expensive option to be out of the workforce for so many years, both in terms of income lost this year, and opportunity for growing future income) then it sounds like the options on the table are the school paying for a private school that focuses on project based learning so that each child can work at their own level and learn organically or a combination of gradeskips and subject accelerations.

Testing, done privately or through the school will help and give clues, but in my experience it isn't as though the testing is specific enough so that X finding can be treated by X schooling option. It's a long road of trial and error, with testing to at least rule out a few dead ends.

You son is very young, and you are right at the beginning of parenting him through school, it take a while to figure this sort of thing out. 2nd grade was 'the worst' for our family too. On wonderful thing about school is that a wonderful teacher might be just around the next corner. DS's 3rd grade teacher was amazing, and I would have been very happy to leave him parked with her for the next 3 years, but that wasn't an option. Look for teachers who are charismatic, self confident, and intelligent. Teachers with a sense of humor. Teachers who see shades of grey.

Then there is the discipline question. It is possible, at least with some kids, to get a discipline system in place so that they child doesn't complain anymore that the school is intolerably poor fit, but that wouldn't be my goal. OTOH, if you child is challenging in the home environment as well, then getting a system of discipline in place that you can live with that works tolerably well is to everyone's advantage. My favorite is found in a book by Lisa Bravo called 'Transforming the Difficult Child Workbook.' My son also found that creating trouble in elementary school was more 'rewarding' than doing nothing. It took a high toll on him, and now he sees that he can get more out of life by being decent to others, and that he has the self-mastery to do what it takes even when that is difficult. It is a little hard to tell if there is a discipline problem at home sometimes, because as a bright parent it's easy to see the potential difficult situations and steer around them - folks at school have neither the ability nor the desire to do that.

Thanks for posting, looking forward to reading your updates,
Grinity

I just wanted to give a quick update. The school agreed to test, so we filled out all the paperwork the week or so after school started in January. He's about halfway through now, and just loves all the tests.

Meanwhile, other teachers came up with the idea of allowing E to read in class, before he starts being disruptive. It was the same idea I suggested months ago, but I guess it was more palatable with other teachers suggesting it. Since this started, E has not been sent to the office because of disruptive behavior in the classroom. Now his teacher complains that he isn't getting work done in class.

(He is still being sent to the office for misbehavior during recess, but that's probably another post.)

Again, many thanks to everyone who weighed in and offered advice and opinions!