Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Effects of almost universal 8th grade algebra

I would think nothing in that the study seems to be indicating that kids who are average - below average in terms of achievement in math don't do well long term with taking Algebra I in 8th grade. I can't imagine that your ds is average or below in terms of math achievement if he is taking Algebra I in 7th.

My dd12 is also taking Algebra I in 7th this year and I'd say that probably 1/5 of her grade is doing the same, but her school is one of the highest achieving middle schools in our state so there are probably a good chunk of high achieving math kids.

What I'd be curious about is whether average or high average ability kids who are above average or well above average in math achievement do well long term with math acceleration along the lines of Algebra I in 7th or 8th. Where we're at, my guess would be that most kids who are average or above in math achievement take Algebra I in 8th.

The purpose of the above research paper is to find a fool-proved method in math education for majority kids without additional teacher training, without massive Singapore style math drills, and without any parent investment in after-school private tutoring. I bet these researchers would find improving math performance when they move algebra from 9th grade to 10th.

FWIW, algebra class would have much more impedimental stuffs. Some kids in DS' algebra I class used to get A or B in pre-algebra, but failed to understand concepts in graph, function, exponent, qudratic, etc. So the math teacher had to review it again and again and again.

Having taught in post-secondary when this spiraling notion was first implemented widely in primary and secondary (late 90s into early 2000's was the first crop of kids that went all the way through with this spiraling pedagogical strategy), I think that you may well have something there.

I truly believe that operant conditioning now trains students to Recall/Regurgitate/Purge/Rinse/Repeat. This was when students began to be indignant when anyone expected them to actually, you know... have retained anything from listed course prerequisites. Because naturally, if I were teaching an Avanced Instrumental Analysis course, I should be willing to remind students of the basics of algebra and chemical equilibrium, right? (Suuuuuuuuure...) How dare I expect that they remember any of that from Gen Chem or high school...

The larger problem, of course, is that when you spend 40% (not the previous 10%) of your time rehashing material that students (should have) seen previously... you have 30% LESS time to spend actually teaching course content which is new and challenging. Nice.

I loathe this with every fibre of my being. Truly-- and the ONE time that DD attempted the "well, it just isn't very important if I 'retain' the info, since... well, you KNOW that I'll see it again anyway, so why try harder..." I just about became unhinged.

That kind of lazy, apathetic mindset is totally incompatible with true learning.

I think this is the single biggest thing wrong with education now-- and that list isn't a short one, by any means, I'll be the first to admit. But the repetition and "oh, it's okay... you'll have another chance... and another... and another... and another..." attitude is just appalling beyond my ability to express it.

It makes educational attainment meaningless. Which is awful in and of itself for the impact that it has on an entire society/culture which no longer values excellence or sees it as a culmination rather than an "event", but it also then makes education as a whole stultifying for the few students who will not/cannot operate that way.

:grr:

Very grr. Credentialism over competence.

IMO, "education" in the United States is dominated by crass thinking and industrial metrics (i.e. scores on watered-down multiple choice tests and GPAs that are based on lots of rubrics that can be manipulated). Excellence, the creation of thoughtful citizens, and learning things well as a way of contributing to the previous two things aren't part of the picture. What's important is that the widgets be good enough to be passed on to the next level of manufacturing. If the end product falls apart, it doesn't matter, provided the score on final inspection/final multiple choice exam was a pass.

I worked at a community college for a while and do grant review. The reliance on multiple choice tests is depressing. What's worse is that people seem to accept them without question. There's no room for being thoughtful or for honestly applying knowledge when the question has to be answered in a minute or less.

And I think it leads to apathetic mindsets. If a mind isn't challenged in a meaningful way, it's no surprise that it works in the way it was trained: in the service of expediency.