Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment IQ Testing Question

Kelly,

From my experience with schools, most of them don't really understand or acknowledge IQ scores. They certainly don't understand when a child is several standard deviations beyond the 100 IQ mean. They seem to mostly look at achievement tests. I'm not familiar with the NWEA, so I don't know if it gives beyond grade level testing, which is what the second psychologist is recommending. There are different kinds of achievement test. Some stay within grade level (but will report higher grade level scores, such as "If a 5th grader took a 2nd grade test, he would get this score), and some truly go beyond grade level. It is possible that your school doesn't understand this difference either.

The most effective way of communicating my son's needs with his school was to have his teacher give him the end of year assessments or tests for each subject when he was in second grade, around the beginning of October. If you can show that your child has nothing new to learn in that particular grade, then you have a case for the school to take action. Each child deserves the right to be appropriately challenged in school.

Please note that they will try to insist that your child must get a 100% on every test to show mastery. This is incorrect. Most school require about an 80% on end of year tests to show mastery of the material. If you child passes this level, you can then ask for the teacher to administer the end of year tests for the next grade up. That should give them an idea about the appropriate placing of your child in their school with their curriculum. Plus, it is free!

But the only reason to start pushing along this path is if you really want the school to take action. Usually parents will request subject acceleration or a full grade acceleration if they show that their child is not fully challenged at school. The best thing about this is that it does not require any form of gifted funding at your school. If your school is willing, they can give your child an appropriate education by just allowing her to be in the appropriate grade, even if it is just for a single subject like math or reading. It requires no extra work or money on their part. But that is a pretty big IF.

This is just one more perspective on a very difficult problem that has many different solutions. I hope this helps?
Ebeth

Thank you for sharing all of this, it is really really helpful insight.

I believe that the NWEA goes beyond grade level. As I understand it, it is a computerized test where the questions become more difficult as the student gets them correct (and easier if they miss questions) and after the student misses a certain # of questions the test ends. Therefore, each individual student could potentially be taking a unique test according to their proficiency in specific areas (Math, Language Usage, Reading, Science, Concepts and Processes).

The assessment testing is a great idea, although I thought that the NWEA was supposed to help in that regard, maybe I misunderstand the proper usage of this test.

I an uncertain the exact direction I would like to take with whatever the test results show, which is why I also think having the hour long consultation after the testing would be beneficial (to help me sort out my options). It just seems like I am unable to persue any direction without evidence to support my decision.

I really like your suggestions and appreciate your input, it is very helpful.

I believe you are discussing the NWEA MAP test, which is in fact a computerized, grade-blind achievement test. The question bank for the MAP is the same for at least K-5, and possibly K-12. Look for the grade level where your child's score corresponds to the 90th percentile or more; remember that the average 3rd grader may not have fully mastered the 3rd grade curriculum. I will go look for the data table link now. You need to go far far down the document, like to page 50, and look at one of the appendices.

I agree with geofizz on this. I appreciate having the IQ data for my children, and it's been useful in dealing with 2e issues, and having as data when a specific program needs an ability score above a certain number for admission... but that's really the extent of how it's been meaningful or useful in a real sense.

My feeling is that first and foremost you follow the needs of your child - what you see by observing them, knowing them, listening to them. Your dd has very high achievement scores, so regardless of her IQ, if she's asking for more challenge, advocate for more challenge.

On the flip side, if you were to find out through the testing that she's off-the-charts sky-high in IQ, it's also not going to change fundamentally who the child is that you've been raising so far - if she's motivated, she's motivated. If she's passionate about science, she'll still be passionate about science. If she's intense, she's intense. If she's motivated by a great empathy, she'll still be motivated by the same things. I think most of us parents of high IQ kids know in our gut feelings that our kids are "out there" somewhere and we see whatever their high IQ needs might be (more challenge, more structure, freedom to create, whatever) with or without an IQ number. So I'm not sure I understand why a test is needed to know whether or not you need to do more... does that make sense?

Please know I'm not saying don't test! But fwiw, I would first really think through what your dd needs from school and what your school options are locally then be sure the testing you're paying for is the testing you really need for advocating.

Also on the achievement tests - I would think the schools would be more interested in NWEA type tests than WJ-III achievement tests when you advocate. That's been our experience - the WJ-III achievement tests are very specific, short, and not tied or directly mappable to a wide swath of school district curriculum.

Good luck! It's very frustrating to want more for our kids and not have many options available.

polarbear

A quick, glossy brochure. Look for you score to be in the top or second row, then see what grade that is:
http://www.nwea.org/sites/www.nwea.org/files/resources/NWEA_Comparative_Data.pdf

The full description of the MAP score norming data. Look at the percentiles by grade in appendix B, starting on page 51:
http://www.nwea.org/sites/www.nwea.org/files/resources/NWEA_2011_RIT_Scale_Norms.pdf

Polarbear, thank you for sharing all of that with me, I appreciate the insight.

Master of None, that is exactly how I feel (or rather how my brain is programmed). I think it is going to help me to better help her to know for sure.

ljoy, thank you so much for the NWEA information, I have been looking high & low for current data and could not find any. Appreciate it!!

We would not have "seen" our HG+ child for what she is. There were lots of reasons why that aren't really relevant here but if we had not had her off to the OT to check for problems like those we overlooked in her older sister, and then had him send us to a psychologist we very possibly would not have found for much longer, if ever. Part of that is that she's 2e (mildly compared to her older sister but still 2e) and partly it's that so far she's not that academically driven, she'd rather navel gaze and dress up. BUT even when not that academically driven she's still infinitely better off grade skipped than she was in her age appropriate class and she'll likely need another before too long. Given how spectacularly we and her teachers were missing what was in front of us I really don't know that she ever would have been "seen" without the IQ testing.

I would echo MumOfThree's statement as our summary of the value of an IQ test for our family: "We would not have 'seen' our HG+ child for what she is."

In our case, it was a crisis during DD9's 2nd grade year. She was becoming sick with anxiety and stomach aches but nobody could figure out why. At that time we were not "gifted aware" beyond a mild notion that she was smarter than average.

What convinced me to test her was finding out her reading scores were many grades higher. That was news to us, given that DD never read material above grade level. In that sense it was the reading test that led to the IQ test, which eventually opened my eyes to the scope and depth of gifted issues.

I don't disagree with this at all, but it appeared that part of the reason the OP was considering testing was to *not* push for more challenge etc if the IQ # came in lower than whatever magical # is going to be considered "gifted" vs "bright child".. and yet the OP has a child who is achieving at a very high level. I would push for more challenge a high-achieving child no matter what the IQ score came in at.

To the OP, I apologize if I misunderstood your full intent in testing. I simply have seen in real life that children who are highly motivated and high achievers aren't always necessarily the highest-IQ kids, so my perspective was more cautionary in terms of what if the IQ # doesn't come out exceptionally high. You will still have a high-achieving child who will undoubtedly benefit from your advocacy and more challenge. And if $ are an issue, we have truly found that achievement testing almost always carries more weight (where we are, in our experience) when advocating for more challenge at school.

polarbear

No need to apologize, I actually appreciate you advocating for my DD Seriously, nice to see someone cares about her other then me.

Please know that I will continue to advocate for her if she does not test as gifted. I just need to *know* how best to help her myself by figuring out what I am actually dealing with. I am tired of guessing and being talked down to by teachers and administrators. I have no "leg" to stand on right now. I am certain that even if she does not test gifted she will be higher intelligence then normal and I feel that even having that evidence will help me push for her further.

She is in good hands and I will be taking care of all of her academic needs accordingly. I just need to find out for certain what I am working with so I can lay out my options and proceed from there.

Flailing around like I am currently doing is not working very well for me.