Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Lightbulb!! DS must have dysgraphia...

Hello all! Well, thanks to you (the forum), as I was reading one of your posts, I came across the term, "dysgraphia" and looked it up. I had never heard of it, but identified it immediately as something my son must be laboring with.

He is highly gifted (WISC IV Full Scale IQ of 149; GAI 154, but as I recall his lowest scores were on processing speed and something else related), and manages all A's in his 7th grade classes. There really are no current school issues, but I think that must be because he overcompensates in many ways.

His handwriting is just awful. His hand grip still looks like a 2 year old using a pencil, and I've never been able to get him to hold the pencil correctly. It is torture watching him cut his meat/use knives properly. He fortunately is a skinny kid, because buttons trouble him so much, he likes to just pull his jeans straight up without unzipping & buttoning! Writing tires him. I am constantly amazed that his teachers can read his writing. I have to say, they've all been very patient and understanding of his handwriting, especially given there is no diagnosis. Personally, I've always thought that it appears he was being lazy & sloppy, but I know he does his best. I do not think he has the most severe case, like some I read about, where it really affects the quality of what he is saying when he writes/the content.

So, what is my question? I guess I'm wondering if it is worth getting this diagnosed officially? First of all, will it make him feel better, to understand there's a reason that he doesn't produce as tidy work as others, etc. Or will it unnecessarily make him feel that there is something really "wrong" with him? I admit, that while using an alphasmart or some of the other accommodations I was just reading about might have been handy for him, I do think that all the writing he's had to do over the years has been helpful, and he has somehow managed. So I'm not sure I'd pursue asking for accommodations (unless there are some that you really recommend that I look into). But also, are there some therapies that really help? Is it worth it at age 12 to do OT? Also, I believe that his slow/poor quality writing hasn't really hindered note-taking so far, largely because he is quite bright and probably just memorizes/understands/listens intently to his teachers, and really doesn't need to study from notes at this point. But, presumably, in high school, note-taking will be more important. So maybe he will suffer more later on, and it might affect his schoolwork. So is it better to have the diagnosis in place now, and save pulling it out until it appears that he truly needs an accommodation?

Sorry for the long post, but this just hit me like a ton of bricks!! Giant "aha!" moment!!

Thanks in advance for any recommendations.

I'm not experienced when it comes to dysgraphia but thought I'd give my 2 cents anyway. I think it may be worth it to have him evaluated, imagine how much further he could go if he had accommodations set in place that would help him reach his full potential?

Good luck getting a diagnosis -- we still don't have one even though my DD13 now has a 504 in place. The first ed psych claims there is no dysgraphia since her processing speed on the WISC-IV was on the low end of average. The second ed psych claims it's a medical diagnosis. The pediatrician claims it's an OT diagnosis. The OT says they cannot legally diagnose anything but gave me a report with the same suggested accommodations as a child with dysgraphia. The reality is that she now has an OT test score showing that her visual/motor integration is well below average, the equivalent of a 7 1/2 year old. Does it keep her from making straight As in honors courses in middle school? No. BUT from my own experience in AP classes, don't see any way for her to get through them in high school without accommodations.

Now that I've given our lengthy background, I would say that if I were you, I'd at least get an OT evaluation, whether or not you go the full neuro-psych evaluation route or not. I think it would be much easier to get accommodations in place before your DS hits high school and AP courses/exams. Remember, if you don't have and use accommodations in school, you can't get accommodations on AP/SAT exams.

Good luck!

I would go for a diagnosis. Your kid already knows he isn't as proficient, and knowing why will give him tools to process and problem solve when tasks are difficult for him.

Beyond that, I'd like to suggest looking at accommodations a little differently. Yes, all that writing helps, and he manages. But think about what he could do - and what it would do for him - if he not only managed but excelled. Accommodations do that. When my son dictates a story, it's far beyond what his peers are writing, but when he writes or types it, it barely qualifies as a story. That does wonders for his confidence and for the way his teachers and peers view him.

And just so you know, my son does the same thing with his pants and button shirts. He wears track pants to school and skate shoes that are untied. He wears a hoodies all day that remains zipped, because he is worried about losing it if he takes it off or not being able to zip it again once it is unzipped.

Hi,
Our DD got a tentative "diagnosis" of dysgraphia earlier this year--the 'slow' kind (where it takes her a long time to write stuff but it looks pretty good at the end). We were lucky to get into another private school for next year (long story) and so are not going to have to deal with an IEP, but FWIW some of the recommendations from the evaluating psychologist included things like not requiring DD to write out her answers on worksheets in full sentences (she's in 3rd grade), allowing her to type her answers when possible (probably at this point mostly for homework), and using voice recognition/ dictation software if possible. Also on the End of Grade (EOG) tests here in NC her current (private) school got an accomodation to allow her to just mark her answers on the test itself and then they transferred the answers to the bubble sheet. I think she could have done it herself because she always finishes early, but of course they want the school to look as good as possible (not that they actually taught her much this year, which is a little irksome, but never mind...). So it might be worth getting a diagnosis if anything like that might help your son.

Also, his scores look pretty high to me--is it possible that his difficulties with handwriting have prevented the teachers from recognizing his giftedness and possibly accelerating him?

Incidentally, my DH still writes like a 2nd grader! I think it's just another indication of how much things have changed over the years (he is in his late forties) that he never got in trouble for it in school at any level, just reminders to try to write more neatly!

I wouldn't worry so much about having the diagnosis in place now or what accommodations to have in place now - I'd place my first priority on getting a full neuropsych educational evaluation for your ds so you can better define what's really going on. It does sound a lot like my ds, who has dysgraphia related to developmental coordination disorder - but there are several different potential causes for dysgraphia (if it is dysgraphia) and the neurospcyh eval is your best bet for fully understanding what's going on. Once you know that, you can move forward with setting up remediation/accommodations/other helpful therapies etc.

A few notes about dysgraphia:

Our ds went through handwriting OT and that gave him a good pencil grip, as well as helped quite a bit with his handwriting legibility. So OT was a *good* thing. However, it didn't take away what is at the core of dysgraphia - dysgraphics' brains are unable to develop automaticity of handwriting (and sometimes other tasks), so when a dysgraphic is writing, their entire working memory is taken up with remembering how to form the letters and there is little to nothing left over for focusing on tasks such as spelling, punctuation and grammar, much less thinking about the content of what they want to write. So a dysgraphic child can go through handwriting OT and come out with nice looking handwriting but it doesn't mean that they are now magically able to show all their knowledge through handwriting - they will still be dysgraphic and still need accommodations.

Most dysgraphic students that I know are moved to keyboarding full time asap to enable them to show their knowledge without the drain of handwriting. If your child has a diagnosis, it will be much easier to get official accommodations in school than without a diagnosis, but while you're waiting for a diagnosis there are still things you might be able to do. Some teachers have no problem with letting a child type assignments, use a personal laptop in class etc - so that's one place you can start. Our school district also has a policy (which isn't publicized, but definitely exists) that states that by a certain grade (I think it's 5th) children who can type faster than they can write have to be allowed to type (I may not be recalling the exactly correct words, but that's the gist of the policy). We found out about that policy through an advocate when we were caught up in the middle of struggling to get accommodations for our ds who actually had a diagnosis. You can also do some informal testing at home to quantify the impact of handwriting - things like testing the numbers of letters per minute your ds generates when copying (you can find guidelines for the expected rate by googling "letters per minute" + "handwriting" + "grade level" etc. You can also have your ds "write" a story for you using handwriting vs typing and time him. You might want to try having him answer rapid-fire math facts questions orally vs using handwriting. Things like that. The info you get will be helpful for you and also for the neuropscyh when your ds goes in for an eval.

I would also look through samples of your ds' schoolwork (handwriting) over time. Right now - is he still reversing any letters? Does he have uneven spacing of letters and between words? Does he mix up capitals and lower case? Does he remember to use punctuation? Does he have a difficult time staying in the lines on lined paper? Is his handwriting extra large if he's given a blank piece of paper to write on? Also ask him if his wrist gets tired or if he gets headaches while he's writing. Look to see if he holds his wrist or elbow to steady his arm while writing. Look to see if he forms his letters the conventional way kids are taught in school or does he do it in an odd way? Does he form them the same way each time he writes them? If you don't seen any of these, that doesn't mean your ds doesn't have dysgraphia, but if you see them, they could be symptoms of dysgraphia.

Re accommodations: if your ds needs accommodations, he needs accommodations. Don't wait for high-stakes testing, get them in place now for a number of reasons. First, he needs them. Second, some kids resist accommodations because they don't want to look different - getting over that bump in the road can take some time. Lastly, accommodations can take practice - very few kids can just leap into typing or voice recognition or whatever and automatically do well - they need practice. You don't want to suddenly start an accommodation and then expect to use it on a high stakes test a short time later.

Finally, I think the most important reason to get an evaluation is to have data that will help your ds understand himself.

Gotta run - hope some of that was helpful!

polarbear

Wow, I am so grateful for these thoughtful responses! I will write back more later, but need to run. I just wanted to chime in to say, "thanks!"

I just have to say that I am so thankful for all of our kids that this information is out there now. I suspect that my brother has some kind of dysgraphia/dyslexia--and boy he must be PG to have compensated as well as he did. I just hate for his little boy self to have been seen (and felt that he was seen) as lazy when there are accomodations that could have helped him. Good luck to the OP. I am firmly in the camp that better understanding and knowledge is power in these situations.

C squared - I think that teaching him to type proficiently is the first priority. If he has that handled, then I would move onto helping him with the handwriting.

What have you tried so far?

Things that help -
Any activity the increases strength and endurance - core so he can hold his body up, and fine motor.
Little rubbery things called 'pencil grippers' that go on the pencil to force the hand into proper position
'The Print tool' from Handwriting without tears - for him to analyse his own handwriting and see where he needs to focus his efforts. (assuming he is interested)

Smiles,
Grinity

Okay, I'm back. Seriously, thanks for all of the information!

Dbat, you asked: "Also, his scores look pretty high to me--is it possible that his difficulties with handwriting have prevented the teachers from recognizing his giftedness and possibly accelerating him?"
Actually, I think it might be the reverse....I think the fact that he does so strongly in school has masked this issue to the point that no teachers have brought it up to me, and while I've always noticed these symptoms (and, *regret, regret* have even teased him a little about his pants-buttoning laziness, his allowing his little sister to tie his shoes when they were younger, etc), I never had a clue that there could be something neurological behind it. I just always hoped he'd grow out of it, his fine motor skills would improve, etc. So, perhaps because I'm guessing his case (assuming I'm right about him having it) isn't the absolute most severe case out there, plus the high ability, he has still managed to excel in school. But as "revmom" points out, middle school is a far cry from high school, and as the workload piles on, I have visions of this finally catching up with him and impeding his success.

He did take keyboarding last year in school, so is adequate at typing, but not excellent yet. But I think if he switched over to that, he'd pick it up. I am so curious to conduct a few home-tests.

In answer to the question about whether he mixes up punctuation, etc: on his first drafts of writing assignments, and also all throughout homework assignments that aren't primarily graded on "writing skills" (say, a science worksheet), his work is often riddled with punctuation errors. He does not mix up b's and d's, but capitalization can be off, periods missing, etc. But if he takes a grammar test, he gets 100% (ie he knows how to do it, when he focuses). When he works on a 2nd draft, or final draft, he corrects his errors. He does have some weird spacing. Also, he has never formed his letters properly (he does his strokes out of order, sometimes starting from the bottom of a letter instead of the top, etc.). And he does form some letters in different ways at different times. It looks so incredibly uncomfortable when he's writing!

I'm glad to hear all the points about accommodations, and the need to carefully re-think that. With just 24 hours of recognizing this, I guess I need for this to sink in, pursue a real evaluation, and do some assessing myself as to how much this is impeding his work. He is actually turning out some really, really nice writing pieces now, but most of those are done at home, on the computer. I wonder, would his writing be even more robust if he dictated it? Maybe/maybe not, but I can't wait to find out.

I'm also eager to get him some grips, and I can imagine that OT could help with the handwriting. I totally get the point that the OT can make the child capable of nicer handwriting, but it doesn't fix the underlying problem. But I agree that legible handwriting is a good skill to have when needed.

He does say that his hand gets tired when he needs to write a lot, and I can see why! One sort of sad note...he has always been interested in medicine, but he did recently say something about how he can probably never be a surgeon. I would have to agree, that isn't likely in the cards for him (but I actually think he'd be more interested in something more research-based anyway). It just is a sad thing to start realizing that maybe some of your options are limited. But hopefully not!!

Thanks again, I really appreciate all of the insights, and learning from your experiences.

PS He doesn't have gross motor skill issues....he's a pretty good athlete, very fast runner, etc. I'm curious if it is typical that this would show up almost entirely in fine motor areas?

Also, I am such a novice, but I'm wondering, how time-consuming is OT? It would be great to know what kinds of things they actually do in OT?