Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Most effective ways to discipline a gifted child??

My DS8 was just recently diagnosed with ADHD combined. I wish I would have discovered the NHA and Transforming the Difficult Child Workbook years ago. But, I never really thought my kid was that difficult (although he has been called defiant by a few teachers) - just demanding, spirited and exuberant. Consequences (ie taking something away) has never worked for my DS8 - traditional timeouts were not effective either (the NHA approach time outs are more effective, but hard to implement -that is why I wish I would have started with it earlier.

Positive reinforcement is the key for my DS. Negative reinformcement just results in a power struggle that usually ends badly (I still slip up sometimes though). Right now, we allot screen time only if he has accumulated points toward minutes of time. He gets points for good behavior, helping out, doing extra chores or doing them the first time I ask, taking no for an answer, saying things like I really don't want to take a shower, mom, but I know that is what you want me to do, so I am going to do it without arguing. When he asks to watch TV, play video computer games or surf the web, he can only do so if he has screen time (only other rule is after homework). Sometimes if he has used his time, he will say, I don't have any screen time, what good behavior can I demonstrate to get some.

Thank you so much for all your replies....I have been feeling like a horrible mother the past few days for sure. I have felt defeated by my DS4 AND by myself for not being able to manage the discipline.

It is in the past 2 weeks DS4's behavior has become more defiant. I want to say that he is the "perfect" kid in school (according to the teacher), very mellow and kind. So I guess he has to take it out on us at home right....;-) Also, clarifying the yelling. When I say there has been yelling I don't mean actual screaming, but more like an angry, louder tone of voice. I hate hearing myself talking to him angrily though. And I know he does not respond to it very well so it is a negative all around.

You are right about nipping it in the bud AS SOON as he starts up something. What has really been the issue is the constant ignoring/saying no to everything I ask him to do. Here is an example of a conversation:

Can you come and get dressed now please?
I will when I am done with this?
OK, finish writing that one line and then come please.
No, I am going to write the whole page and THEN I will come.
No, you need to come now. (By now done with the one line)
No, I am not! YOU go and get dressed! I am NOT coming!

The only way to get his to come in a situation like this is to do the counting to 3. I don't want to use that technique multiple times/day though in fear that it will stop working.

Then of course there are times when he just flat out gets angry about something and he runs up and tries to hit. This is when I immediately take him to the time out spot, where he WILL stay put.

We do take away watching videos on YouTube at night if he doesn't act right. But it is usually an all or nothing deal. It is not taken away in increments.

My plan is to do it Super nanny style for the more serious offenses. The question is what to do with the not AS serious, not listening incidents...

That's cute!

My kid does a chore in addition to what she has lost or had to do, but it does work somewhat better now that she is on medication that helps impulse control. But a 4 year old is a lot different than a ten-year old...

Like someone else said, consistency is very important, but it is also the hardest.

LOL

We do the count to 3 thing with Mr W.

We also withold things he likes to do, ie favorite toys, the computer, etc. These things go in timeout. We also talk to him about how what he does hurts OUR feelings. It was a real struggle when he was 2.5 to 3.0 but now its a rare occurrence.

There is some great advice in this thread. How I wish there had been this kind of resource when my kids were young!


After raising two gifted kids to adulthood (the third is still in mid school), I can tell you from experience that any time you give a child the option of coming or not, it should be when you are prepared the accept the option of not coming. Your child is discerning that "can you come" gives him the power to decide if he wants to yet or if something else is more important, while "please come now" is an imperative command that lets him know you are in charge and are deciding what needs to happen at that moment. This tactic worked very well for all three of my kids. When they didn't have an option, I didn't give them one. But when it really didn't matter, then I tried to build in options so they felt like they did have some power over their options - "would you like to continue working on your project for the next fifteen minutes and then come take a bath or would you like to finish up now and have time to read a story together" gave them the option, and I didn't really care either way.

Beyond that, I learned that it was best to pick a handful of absolutely non-negotiable rules over which I never wavered and decided the rest weren't battles where it was worth dying on the field. With my oldest, everything was a power struggle before my pediatrician recommended I try this approach. After I stopped battling her over every minute detail, she stopped battling as much over the big things. As her doctor (who is gifted) told me, "Gifted kids know whether it takes 243 times to get mom to change her mind or whether it takes 409, so if it is important, set the boundary and don't budge. The rest of the time, don't let them get to 243. Let them negotiate right away and feel like they were able to change their options that time." It helped tremendously.

The third thing I've learned raising gifted kids, is that moderation is rarely a part of their makeup. My daughter especially needed time to unwind and have alone time. If I tried to pack too much into my day when she was little, we had drama. If I made sure she had a respite from all the stimulation, she coped much better with what I was asking of her. Does your son spend most of his waking hours interacting with his younger sibling? It might help to structure some alone time for him where he can get into his own head and recharge. It may help him feel more in control over his own environment so that he's less combative when you're making changes to his environment - such as asking him to stop what he's doing.

And the last thing I'll share is that I learned that arbitrary consequences were not nearly as effective as consequences that "fit the crime". My son went through a terrible lying phase when he was about 7. After punishing him, reasoning with him, explaining to him why lying was so hurtful, I finally had enough and told him, "If you lie to me again, just know that I will take that as a sign that you are ok with me lying to you. So if I catch you in another lie, there will be no immediate punishment. But after that, I will lie to you at some point. I will agree to something or promise something, but it will be a lie. You won't know when I'm going to lie; you just will have to wonder." When he had to consider how he would feel if he couldn't trust me, he didn't lie to me. He's now an adult and still doesn't lie to me (sometimes I really wish he would... some things a mom really doesn't need to know, you know...). -smile- But the point is that punishment shouldn't always be about taking a favorite activity or thing away; when possible, the consequence should effectively teach the lesson so that your child understands why the behavior is hurtful or not acceptable. It isn't always possible, but it's a good strategy when you can find a way to use it.

Uh--when you find out, can you PLEASE tell me?

I just bought the Transforming the Difficult Child workbook. But...I have bought so many books...

totally agree here ABQmom! With DS now 5 and in K was in pre-K, I actually had to explain to his teacher that she was giving him choices because he was correctly parsing her sentences. She would say, please would you come and join us on the rug or please would you line up. I told here that we would say come join us on the rug please, clean up your toys now please. It was like the eats shoots and leaves panda (just showed the kids version to DS, hilarious!)

I find with the incredible vocab and comprehension he has learned that words have power and when you couple that with his belief that he is an equal partner in the family, it is very important to emphasize that you are in control - but not meanly or arbitrarily. I also started to explain that we ask him to do things he might not want to because of 1) safety or 2) our values. Its amazing how many things fall into the values category - you need to get dressed now because we need to be ontime. But in doing that you have to recognize when it doesnt matter - the classic pick your battles. I have left the house carrying his clothes at which point he decided he would rather get dressed in the house!

I have also noticed that the desire to be nice and courteous can be quite passive agressive - did you want him to come now, or come in 5 minutes. If 5 minutes is acceptable - give the warning - in 5 minutes you have to come - but if its now, say now. I find that my approach works for us but where it can go wrong is when I am arbitrary and then have to stick to a stupid position because i staked it out. Consistency is so critical - and we see the difference with my DH - he can be stretched or pulled away from what he wanted because he enjoys it too and then suddenly DS is so far over the line and suddenly DH is yelling, which is very confusing for both of them.

All this is very tough because it forces you to evalaute your own behavior - how you ask for things how you are in situations where they can absolutely push your buttons like no one else!

but you absoluely are in the right place for btdt!!!

DeHe

I have been amazed at how often my 2.5 year old will correct her behavior when I ask her something like this:

"Do you want to brush your teeth now, or do you want to go to time out and still brush your teeth when you get out?"

oh I hear you describing MY kid here! lol!!!

except mine had it all at school...and I'm sorry, but to me, readinga book underr the desk isn't defiant, it's my kid remembering me saying "I'd rather hear you were reading under the desk than talking to other kids or running around the room"

My DD8...so many times I tried to tell people that NONE of the rewards/consequences/timeouts/removal of priveleges, etc ever worked. I shoud have seen it coming...time outs didn't make much difference when she was littler

I TOTALLY echo ABQmom and DeHe...it's all in HOW and WHAT you say to some of these kids. I also realized the way we speak to each other in our home has led to a situation where our DD might have felt disrespected in the classroom and in turn, did not respect her teachers...

In our house, it would go like this...

Please get dressed now, it's almost time to go. (BTW-I am the ONLY "rusher" in a family of dawdlers.I know this about them and make sure to give them all plenty of warning.)
and honestly, then they get dressed.

We ALWAYS speak to each other politely...but there is a way to make even a command sound more pleasing, you know? I would suggest you also be FIRM, do not end your sentances with questions or make it sound like there is a choice. I DO try to be sensitive to the fact that my intense children need more time than others to disengage from one task and move to another...they are marathon runners, not sprinters

I also agree with the list of non-negotiables. Several of my friends have these items as "house rules". You can involve the whole family in making these rules (making sure to slip in basics like "no hitting" or, I prefer "We only touch each other with love and kindness", emphasize the positive). In our house, we also refer to it as "Team 2giftgirls". So...TEAM 2gifts only touches people with love...TEAM 2gifts uses nice tablemanners...TEAM 2gifts looks both ways before crossing the street...I think you get the idea.

One more thing to note, because I find it so interesting...so many people seem to say their kid either is great at school then awful at home, or vice versa. A kid I know said "I use up all my good at school". I honestly think you might spend a day or two observing his school environment,since you said you feel he sometimes needs to "let it out" at home. The pressure of not having choices (or fear of making the wrong choice) may be the root of the problem?

These are such great comments -- I am so happy to find this topic on here today. Yesterday was a unpleasant day for DS4 and me, him whiny and extra negotiative (that should be a word) all day which really wears one out. Many days with him I'm pretty tense by the end.

Last night I walked into a room to see him giggling and literally trying to swing our cat by its tail (he's known not to pull tails let alone lift a cat by one since 2) and he got the first actual sit down spanking of his life. He later sincerely apologized and spontaneously promised never to do it again. I didn't realize he could come up with such mature sounding things to say -- and the night ended with seemingly good feelings. But this morning I wish I'd thought of some alternative as spanking wasn't planned as one of our parenting strategies -- yet I'm still having trouble today thinking of what else would have been appropriate right then, I can't think what else would have made an actual impact on him.

Longterm I've noticed (unfortunately) that yelling actually does work with DS, for example he finally potty trained (right around 4) the very day that lost it and yelled at him about it. We don't yell very often so maybe that's why it seems to work so well, I just hate that it works as we ought to be able to get him to understand important things without that. We had tried absolutely every known potty training method previously. Ranting at your child for 15 minutes is not listed as an approved method in the potty-training books. It was as if, after a year of us trying, he suddenly thought, "oh, so they actually are serious about this potty thing".

Yesterday evening DH and I decided to go to 5 mornings a week at preschool instead of 4, for consistency and because it seems like days spent entirely with a parent tend to end poorly. I find that disappointing, that we somehow can't manage our 4 year old for a whole day. He is perfectly behaved with babysitters, and reasonably (though not perfectly) behaved at preschool. He just lets it all hang out at home.

Beyond upping the preschool days I'm clueless. We've read a few books, I really liked How to Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids will Talk, and also Raising Your Spirited Child. Those paralleled our gut feelings on parenting. But seemingly not working seemlessly. I read 123 Magic but didn't think that was workable for our family. I'll order the Transforming The Difficult Child Workbook.

Anyways, no useful advice from me obviously. It is really nice to know there are others having trouble at 4 also. If anyone has any other book recommendations please share!

Polly