Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Success factors

Perplexed, that was very beautifully said.

Great post, perplexed. I was trying to come up with something like this, too: "...success should be defined as having the means available to achieve one's individual measure of success." I want my kids to be able to do what they want to do. For at least one of them (my DD is very driven and ambitious--DS remains a bit more of a mystery) that may mean getting her the best education possible. That might look like I'm pushing her towards wealth and conventional achievement, but IMO it's more a question of giving her tools.

as for this:


There's a big expanse in between minimum wage and $80,000/year--most of America lives in it, in fact.

And at the minimum wage, it's virtually impoosible to succeed.

In fact, according to my brother-in-law psychiatrist, it's almost impossible to avoid mental health problems at that level of income.

No problem. It was only recenlty that I realized that I should have probably gone into radiation oncology.

I didn't even realize that DoctorWorld had social castes, either, until I started dealing with disability law. I was recenlty talking to a cardiologist who was complaining about how little money the GPs in his practice bring in and how his group (cardiology) are the ones who actually support the practice, whereas the GPs are financially worthless.

My family avoided interacting with the physicians in our family (uncle, cousin). I think my immediate family was embarassed by their own relative poverty.

I know I started this thread but I am a little amused at the tangent it has taken. First. Having looked at our own finances recently to make a long term plan. I could live really well in MI, or IA. But if I choose to stay in NYC, it takes a different kind of cash flow.

Also, if I live in NYC, and then want to have a home at the ocean, it could be in the Hamptoms at ridiculous cost of several million or try a more reasonable approach at the Jersey shore. Still, these things cost more money than a cottage in MI. I am just using MI as an example to make my point.

So whether someone makes 80K or 400K, the cash flow required to maintain a standard of living, even in a modest enough house for the family, depends on where you live.

As much as we think we are imbuing our children with these wonderful values we have posted about, how many of our children are doing exactly as we want. I wanted NYC, I love NYC, I fit in NYC. My brother is totally happy in the midwest, with a nice house on Lake Huron, goes fishing and doesn't worry if his passport is valid. Two kids, 2 years apart. A friend once told me that she would never have put us in the same room let alone in the same family.

The point being, our children may want to buy a Porsche or a Honda civic. Those are choices they will make when they are old enough. My point is what can I give my child so that if she really, really wants that Porsche, she has the options to pursue that life.

During my 20s, I spent my life traveling first class and staying in the best hotels in the world. It was fun. I spent a lot of money on my clothes and went to ridiculous parties.

I drive a Honda Element now because it is totally plastic inside and I can vaccum it in 15 minutes. I have child and dog and spend summers at the beach, that is a priority. But when I went to Egypt in April, I bought 2 rugs. Because I wanted to. I have that option.

To make sure my kid has that option, to give her kids the summers at the beach, the travel, the lessons, the time with them, means a career that gives her choices. She could choose to live in MI and require less cash flow, but I will not be making those choices for her. She gets to make them when she is grown. Hence, what tools do I give her to be able to make those choices?

And why I went with confidence as one of those tools. Then we went on the tangent of how much anyone person should save.

Ren

You mirrored my feelings 100% with this ColinsMum, and said it so beautifully too!

I guess you could use religion, politics, and peer pressure to guide youngsters into a future social circle. �That's common. �You could do some reflection about what money and reputation mean to you so that you're ready to share that part of your beliefs with your kids. �More practically I would think that if your kids were accustomed to a lifestyle and you modeled consistency and discipline then they'll be drawn to that later. �Is that what you want to hear,? Because I feel it's probably mostly true, although I know a few friends and probably you do to who fell into a lower quality of life than what their parents left them as a legacy. �The only thing you can do is maybe fund annuity trusts and hope they're smarter than to need them?�There are no guarantees. �I think I'll just do my best while they are young and trust them more with their own life as they get older. � Wren, I love how you try to brainstorm to see if you're missing giving your kid something because they only have one childhood, one life, and one future. �Even though we all have different ideas of perfection it's nice to ask and to think about it.

ETA: I just got some books from my grandfather's library including "making people productive", granted it's a business book and not a child-raising book but maybe you could read some books like that and see if it makes you feel better. �Leadership is leadership. �If you learn it you can teach it to your babies. �That's the difference between the two jobs you posted, one's a worker and one's the head of a..

Family connections help. There's nothing quite like being handed a job because you family knows someone and they feel like giving you a job. That was my last job.

Also, the right school works. My first job out of law school was basically handed to me because of where I went. That was nice. Credentialsim works. It helped me get my current job, too.

Also, you can fund your children direcly so they can buy as much stuff as they want.

Well, what tools did you have to be able to do all those things? I haven't left the country yet. You probably know the answer better than some of us...

What I take away from this thread (and already knew) is that intelligence is just one factor in worldly success. That doesn't change the fact that great talent enables achievements that most can only dream about, and which are valuable in different ways from things rewarded by money, Audis and vacations abroad. There is no perfect mapping of intellectual achievement to the monetary value system imposed by society, and many great thinkers have failed to be properly appreciated in their own time. Thus I see these repetitive musings on the nature of worldly success as tangential at best to discussions of intelligence.

Good question. The only things I can think of is desire and luck, and the willingness to try. The biggest comment I get on my talent is that I can "make it happen". Which means I do not take no well. I refuse to take no well. Not sure if that just means I want what I want or what.

Ren