Originally Posted by connieculkins
If you call ESL classrooms a form of institutionalized segregation then you could argue that any kind of special program is a form of segregation. Even all these gifted programs are a form of segregation if you think in those terms. But because people think of 'gifted' as a positive then it suddenly becomes desirable.

I said institutionalized racism, because I believe that in most instances when these programs are in place it is not done for the benefit of the ESL students, but for the purpose of keeping minority students away from white kids. frown The same is mostly not true for gifted programs. Gifted programs, theoretically at least, meet a need of the students involved, as opposed to having isolation as the goal.

Originally Posted by connieculkins
I've been in a situation where I didn't know English and I think that I'm in a position to know what's best for people in the same situation. I think that many people theorize from a position of idealism where they think that everyone should be mixed up together and somehow this is beneficial to all. Meanwhile you have major hypocrisy because while this is the policy most of the native English speaking caucasians want their kids separated out into the gifted programs. Ha, isn't this segregation! While they say that is is possible for anyone of any socioeconomic background or heritage to be gifted you know almost all the gifted kids are from one demographic. So they get their idealistic notions and policies to calm their consciences while they still condone segregation. Parfait.

I appreciate that it must be very frustrating to be in your position, having struggled to teach yourself English and now having to deal with a school system which, from your descriptions, is highly segregated and does not meet the needs of your son. I do appreciate that. But that does not make your opinion on this subject infallible.

The thing that bothers me the most about your argument is not simply the fact that you want ESL students to have their own classroom. It could be possible that a school might have a separate classroom for ESL students that could benefit them and result in an easier transition into the normal classroom (though that is not the reality of how most of these programs work). What bothers me is that you want them out of your son's classroom because you somehow feel that they are making other kids look gifted. That, to me, is just absurd.