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    I don't know that IQ predicts performance as well... where are studies that show that? I have known some very, very smart folks who did not do as well due to their inability to deal with their co-workers - despite their college background. There are intangibles that are just as important (not what college you go to - but sometimes I wonder to some extent how employers also look at the activities you do when hiring college grads... I recall a few recruiters very interested in the sport I participated in, and I have wondered at times whether that was a factor in offers I received for my first job out of college... there was definitely some pull based on the school attended, and sometimes I wonder, to the activities along with your GPA/course work).

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    Originally Posted by Val
    I started reading that article earlier today and will finish at lunchtime. This paragraph struck me:

    Quote
    No one but me knows he fakes being well-read by thumbing through the first and last chapters of any book he hears about and obsessively devouring reviews in lieu of the real thing. He does this not because he’s incurious, but because there’s a bigger social reward for being able to talk about books than for actually reading them.

    I think that it needs to be pointed out that he is essentially using the old bond trader's cheat sheet approach to social occasions.

    So, it's certainly a valid technique that has a proven track record.

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    Originally Posted by notnafnaf
    I don't know that IQ predicts performance as well... where are studies that show that?
    Frank Schmidt and John Hunter are prominent researchers in this area, and their 2004 paper General Mental Ability in the World of Work: Occupational Attainment and Job Performance cites many earlier papers.

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    Originally Posted by Bostonian
    I will have my children read The Bell Curve some day and explain to them that so-called "privileged" children outperform the "underprivileged" academically primarily because of of IQ differentials.
    Then why do "elite" colleges use extra-curriculars in their admissions process.

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    ...because sometimes admissions committees are packed with people who are-- well, unspeakably GAUCHE, to speak plainly. Those people can't be expected to just recognize the relative importance of the von Preeminence name and how those bearing it are to be treated. We have to help them somehow.





    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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    You can tell an applicant's class from the financial disclosures, but you can't tell class. The right kind of applicant lists canoeing/sailing, volunteering at the art museum/political campaign, and charity fund raising, for starters.

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    I know a Harvard Professor in STEM who told me, "Don't bother sending you sons to an ivy league school as an under graduate, generally speaking, they're much better off in any number of state or small private colleges as under graduates where professors actually teach the classes. Under graduates just aren't looked upon with much importance at an ivy league school. When they get to the graduate level courses, that's different."

    His opinion coming from a man who came from a third world country and attended a state college, then was hired to Harvard from that background. Certainly it's only one man's opinion but note worthy.

    Last edited by Old Dad; 07/24/14 07:26 AM.
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    I agree. The focus can be on teaching undergrads XOR on graduate research. There are a number of pseudo-ivies though that have a strong undergraduate focus (like Rice in Houston TX or Wellesley in MA) that could be a good fit for a gifted kid. Rice has a student teacher ratio in the low single digits and a ton of research/internship opportunities b/c it is located in the Houston Medical district, near all the museums and a ton of fortunte 500 companies.

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    Originally Posted by Old Dad
    I know a Harvard Professor in STEM who told me, "Don't bother sending you sons to an ivy league school as an under graduate, generally speaking, they're much better off in any number of state or small private colleges as under graduates where professors actually teach the classes. Under graduates just aren't looked upon with much importance at an ivy league school. When they get to the graduate level courses, that's different."
    As a physics major at Harvard, I never took a course that did not have lectures by a professor, although some of the lower-level classes also had sections with teaching assistants. It's probably true that the first priority of most professors at elite research universities is research -- that's the primary basis on which they are tenured. But the physics professors were enthusiastic and very knowledgeable about what they taught, and I think they felt that training the next generation of physicists was a serious responsibility. They would not skimp on topics covered out of apathy or the desire to make things easy for students. Many physics majors taught themselves by working individually on problem sets and then discussing them with other classmates, rather than going to professors' office hours. I think this is a reasonable approach.

    If you are a well-prepared physics major, coming in with 5's on AP Physics C and AP Calculus, you may be taking graduate courses as early as your junior year, so there is not a bright line separating undergraduate and graduate education.

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    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    {wince} That's pretty telling, isn't it?? I can't decide whether the correct response there is:

    a. Don't worry-- since you've asked, I predict that you're fully immune.

    b. Sure there is-- get over yourself. Early and often. You're welcome.

    c. No, not really. The real question is-- why would you WANT to? Being an entitled sh*t is awesome!
    The author himself is pretty narrow-minded, so students should not be seeking his absolution:
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    In the affluent suburbs and well-heeled urban enclaves where this game is principally played, it is not about whether you go to an elite school. It’s about which one you go to. It is Penn versus Tufts, not Penn versus Penn State. It doesn’t matter that a bright young person can go to Ohio State, become a doctor, settle in Dayton, and make a very good living. Such an outcome is simply too horrible to contemplate.
    What's wrong with being a doctor in Dayton? I think the author is projecting his own preferences onto others. I think my middle son, given his interests, may become an engineer. Penn State and many other state schools could be a good place for him.

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