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    Joined: Jul 2011
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    Originally Posted by Dude
    It all varies by experience, naturally, and it's hard to beat being a young attractive woman (although that comes with its own unique set of drawbacks, too), but I can say that "average white guy" has been quite a door-opener for me, professionally as well as personally.

    I've learned to use tattoos as an indicator.

    Works pretty well, I think.

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    An example of Canadian HR law in practice-- if you are an employer filling a job in a field with a historic demographic bias, you must actively enact policies that encourage the hiring of the "disadvantaged" group(s).

    Having spoken with high-level HR professionals at several banks, consultancies, CPG firms, and governments, if an equally qualified male and female apply for most professional services roles, the female will get the job. Lucrative government work doesn't even rely on the notion of equal qualification--simply belonging to an underrepresented group and being somewhat qualified will get you the job.

    As a female, I think it's specious to suggest that females today should be compensated for the wrongs that women of yesterday suffered. It's not as though all women share a bank account and apportion out our gender's earnings based on time worked. I've turned down plum work several times on principle because I was invited as a female professional, not just a professional.

    Reverse discrimination is just as damaging as favouring white males. It takes an organization's focus off its core mission and values employees for factors out of their control. I'm a champion of equality of opportunity, not outcome from the starting gate.

    As a mother of a son, I'm troubled by the fact that being the best candidate doesn't matter for a white boy. While there are indeed social advantages to being a white male that carry over from antiquated social norms, there is a genuine and systematic bias against white males in professional services in Canada. From what I understand, similar legislation is in place in the Commonwealth and much of Western Europe.


    What is to give light must endure burning.
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    Originally Posted by aquinas
    An example of Canadian HR law in practice-- if you are an employer filling a job in a field with a historic demographic bias, you must actively enact policies that encourage the hiring of the "disadvantaged" group(s).

    Having spoken with high-level HR professionals at several banks, consultancies, CPG firms, and governments, if an equally qualified male and female apply for most professional services roles, the female will get the job. Lucrative government work doesn't even rely on the notion of equal qualification--simply belonging to an underrepresented group and being somewhat qualified will get you the job.

    In law, this seems to work to get the women into corporate/government (lower stress/lower pay) roles, leaving the male lawyers with the big law firms (higher stress/higher pay).

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    Originally Posted by JonLaw
    Originally Posted by aquinas
    An example of Canadian HR law in practice-- if you are an employer filling a job in a field with a historic demographic bias, you must actively enact policies that encourage the hiring of the "disadvantaged" group(s).

    Having spoken with high-level HR professionals at several banks, consultancies, CPG firms, and governments, if an equally qualified male and female apply for most professional services roles, the female will get the job. Lucrative government work doesn't even rely on the notion of equal qualification--simply belonging to an underrepresented group and being somewhat qualified will get you the job.

    In law, this seems to work to get the women into corporate/government (lower stress/lower pay) roles, leaving the male lawyers with the big law firms (higher stress/higher pay).

    Exactly the same in management consulting, in-house C-suite succession, etc.

    I suspect that's an issue of culture and similar-to-me bias in apportioning work once candidates are hired. Firms have to be unrelentingly systematic in promoting equalty of opportunity at all stages of employees' careers to achieve fairness across pay grades. Frankly, most firms just don't care. It's cheaper to be inequitable after hiring and just pay off settlements for lawsuits that surface.

    There's also the reality that corporate law is absolutely crushing, so there's a self-selection bias at play among women (and men) aspiring to start families and actually spend time with their children. Whoever pulls down the most billables and drives new business gets his way.

    ETA: I'm going to plug a helpful book here for managers interested in implementing equity based standards for talent development:

    http://m.indigo.ca/product/books/be...988?ikwid=gary%20p.%20latham&ikwsec=Home

    Last edited by aquinas; 06/05/13 08:56 AM. Reason: Book link added
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    Quote
    Honestly, I find it difficult to participate in the pity party, but maybe that's because I'm actually aware of Soviet history

    I just love the way [not] that most Americans that have a little [tiny] bit of historical knowledge think that they automatically have a superior perspective to everyone else.

    I have read extensively about Soviet history - because growing up in a socialist country it was taught in schools, personal interest having had several family members disappear during those times (an entire sub-tree of the family tree was pruned by Lenin) and also from a natural loathing of all things totalitarian and tyrannous.

    I find the fact that not only were kulaks universally despised and demeaned but even their children were punished for having the audacity to be the children of kulaks very telling...

    Admittedly there are no forced labour (and worse) camps but the current trend is not at all heading towards rewarding merit and ability is it?

    Frankly, the notion that one just needs to exercise self discipline by studying hard and working harder seems rather quaint and old-fashioned these days - don't you think?

    Pity - who needs it - I certainly don't. I am just stating things as I see them.







    Become what you are
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    Originally Posted by madeinuk
    also from a natural loathing of all things totalitarian and tyrannous.

    Tyrannous rex?

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    Originally Posted by madeinuk
    Admittedly there are no forced labour (and worse) camps but the current trend is not at all heading towards rewarding merit and ability is it?

    What about debt serfs?

    They're a kind of forced labor, right?

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    Workhouses!!



    What we need now are... WORKHOUSES!



    wink



    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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    Originally Posted by madeinuk
    Quote
    Honestly, I find it difficult to participate in the pity party, but maybe that's because I'm actually aware of Soviet history

    I just love the way [not] that most Americans that have a little [tiny] bit of historical knowledge think that they automatically have a superior perspective to everyone else.

    The historical facts support the notion that being a kulak wasn't anything like being a modern American white male, so there was no need for you to show off your bigotry.

    You know, facts like "forced labour (and worse) camps," for starters.

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    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    Workhouses!!



    What we need now are... WORKHOUSES!



    wink

    No, we need more ROBOTS!

    There's no problem in the modern technological era that cannot be solved with ROBOTS.

    They don't go on strike.

    They do what they're told.

    They're very efficient.

    Let's hear it for ROBOTS!

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