Originally Posted by Irena
Originally Posted by aeh
Originally Posted by blackcat
I just asked both kids and DD (age 8) could do 5 backwards easily and DS (turned 7 a couple months ago) could do 4 but struggled w/ 5. So would that really earn a digit span score of 10-11 for DS? I didn't try forwards but I think for DS it's probably around 6-7 digits. I find it so strange how DD doesn't seem to have any problem with this at all but she looks spaced out if you ask her what's 9+4. DS didn't have nearly as many problems memorizing math facts.

Okay, so here's the scoop. Digits forwards typically is reflective of the auditory short-term memory channel, as well as attention. Digits reversed is often reflective of the visual memory channel. In order to be successful at digits reversed without brute force (i.e., repeating the sequence forwards mentally or subvocally, but saying the last number out loud, and then repeating the whole sequence forwards, but vocalizing the second to last digit, etc.), which is quite laborious, and requires a pretty big auditory loop, one inputs the digit sequence into something like a visual scratch pad in the brain. Those who are most successful then read it off the scratch pad, but backwards. If your visual scratch pad isn't very big, or has a short expiration time, you will have a hard time with digits reversed. This is most likely why a child with DCD might be so much more successful with digits forwards, but tank digits backwards. Both DCD and digits backwards are connected to perceptual deficits.

If DSF and DSB are significantly different, then the combined digit span score does not really capture the working memory profile of the individual.

blackcat, with your children in particular, those spans are actually quite good for their age, and would have suggested higher scaled scores to me for your DS7. On the other hand, in formal testing, we expect them to repeat those spans consistently. If you can do it sometimes, but not every time, you may not receive as high a scaled score as your longest span would suggest. And inconsistency is often what you find when the expected low cognitive load means of completing a task does not come naturally, and children have to enlist a great deal of cognition into working around their deficit areas.

Wow!!! Aeh, You are AWESOME! Are you a neuropsych? How is that that I have had my son see and tested by a psych at a children's hospital (granted, she specialized in anxiety), a school psych, and a neuropsych (the neuropsych seemed very rushed and just seemed not all that thorough) but no one could explain this to me. I mean I SPECIFICALLY asked them each what could be the reason for this... I have been searching for this info. Honestly I am little disappointed that I spent quite a lot of money (well, my insurance in most cases but still) on these professionals and they could not give me any answer to this! WTF?! Anyway, thank you so much for being on this board ! It's just nice to know what the probable weakness is! Maybe it can be remediated! My son definitely has perceptual deficits! Any idea what helps that? He has trouble with geometry, etc. His visual sequencing test is really, really low (or was last time it was tested). He has been getting vision therapy, which has been great for him - will that help with perceptual deficits, do you know?

Vision therapy may be helpful with elements that have to do with visual tracking, but not necessarily perceptual deficits per se. Vision refers to the sensory aspect, as in what direct signals the brain gets from the environment through the visual system. Perception has more to do with how the brain interprets and manages that sensory data, so although the two systems are closely related, they are not exactly the same. I do think that the whole rising tide lifts all boats thing often comes into play, though, as any load that is reduced in one area frees up some brain to devote to other areas.

...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...