Originally Posted by Kjj
See, I don't sweat the small stuff. I let them go nuts with ideas, directions, and crazy inventions. When they coated the bathroom, top to bottom, with conditioner when they were 4 & 5, to see if they could make a frictionless surface because we'd watched a show about maglev trains and they were fascinated by it, I didn't get mad, and they didn't get punished. Small stuff in terms of "wrongitude", but big in terms of creative thinking.

Other than possibly slipping on the floor and getting a boo-boo, I don't see where this anecdote relates to safety.

Originally Posted by Kjj
Originally Posted by Kjj
Look, there are times to be nice, soft, goofy, loving, sweet and permissive. Keeping your kid safe is not one of those times, in my opinion.
Originally Posted by Dude
False dichotomy.

That's a flip response. Your world may have more shades of gray in it than mine, it doesn't make my world "false".

I didn't say your world was false, I said your binary proposition was. You can be nice, goofy, etc., while still keeping your child safe.

For example, my DD was expected to hold a parent's hand when traversing a parking lot. She usually held a hand from both parents, and we'd occasionally pull her off her feet and swing her forward. Safe, and goofy.

And now she had more than one reason to voluntarily comply.

Originally Posted by Kjj
Look, they're 12 and 13 now, and except for still making incredible messes when they come up with ideas, they have a fairly good sense of what's right and wrong, and what's a reasonable risk. They've learned that a rational argument will get them much closer to what they want rather than temper tantrums.

Now you seem to be buying into the false dichotomy that not being authoritarian equals tantrums. See authoritative parenting.

Originally Posted by Kjj
They've learned that impulsive behavior is a non-starter, and to think before they act. Well, most of the time-we all knee jerk with stuff occasionally, but just having the awareness that "oops, should have thought that one through" is really valuable.

That's a shame, because impulsiveness can be a lot of fun. Also, if you're just telling your child, "Because I said so!", you're not giving them the tools they need to think things through.

Originally Posted by Kjj
I'm trying to get them to adulthood with an ability to function in society, be able to accurately anticipate consequences, and make the best of a sometimes crappy situation. Those are good skills to learn, and I think the sooner, the better.

We have the same goal, just not the same approach.

Originally Posted by Kjj
Those skills are just really no fun to teach, though.

Not the way you're suggesting, it wouldn't.