My son is three and is developing a sense of will and self as most of his peer group do at this time. When he is not wanting to do as we ask (i.e. get in the car, leave a place we were having fun at, be in the house for dinner, going to bed etc.) he acts as if he will comply and then takes off in full run in the opposite direction. We have come to expect this and have figured out how to manage it physically or to avoid it all together.

However the other night during our bedtime chat hour, he tells me "I need to go out on my own sometimes" going on to clarify not with his parents or others. I explain that we need to keep him safe reminding him of running in the street, parking lots, down stairs, and getting lost. He said he can keep himself safe and wont get lost and repeats that he needs to go out on his own sometimes. I ask him why and he says because he feels like he is in a "cage with no door."

How would parents answer this question to there own gifted child young child and also address their need for freedom? I had some, but want to hear what others would say keeping in mind sensativity and being prone to nightmares.

Can you let him know that sometimes he can have the chance to do what he wants and sometimes he can't?  Can you make sure to make times that you can    go exploring with your kid following his lead. butt out while your kid explores outside?  Take a book and burry your nose in it and say, "stay on this side of the house where I can see you.". Walk with him and show him a boundary.  Then ignore him and read your book. Make it obvious you're doing your own thing, not really watching him. Just holler "get back over here"  if he goes around the house.  And take him back inside if he doesn't.  


I made this reply but hesitated to post believing maybe you were looking more for ideas on how to approach this conversation topic with a 3yr old.

OMG   We went to a thing at the park and he had an amount of freedom like all the other kids we knew there. 

 He ran away laughing when I said it was time to go.  I got close enough so he could hear and said, "if you don't get here now you're grounded".  He laughed and ran again.  He's spending the day in bed.  Now he knows what grounding is.   Poor baby.  His very first grounding.  Also if we go anywhere fun in the next few weeks he's going to have to stay real close to mamma like he's a toddler and I'm going to tell him every time it's because I need to be able to trust him to come when I call him if we're not at the house.  YMMV

You never answered so I don't know if my first post was "liked".   I really don't know if this post is even helpful.  I've told him, Now you know what grounding is.  This is the worst thing possible.  If I say, stop or you're grounded, this is what it means.

If it helps he's come up with everything there is to say on the subject on his own today. . .  from, "next time I'll listen when you tell me it's time to go", (( that's true, but you're still grounded. . .  to, "time out is better"... to, "let me up before I call you dummy".  Name calling's a hot button topic lately.  What does, "mommy I love you" have to do with "please let me watch the movie" ?

When my kids were three, I was less interested in "addressing their need for freedom" than I was in keeping them from getting hit by cars.

In my opinion, setting boundaries are what's important for toddlers, not respecting "freedom". I'm not even sure what that term means in respect to a 3 year old?

Are you afraid if you start telling him "no" and setting boundaries you're going to mess him up? If you don't do it now, life's going to do it to him later, and that's not a pretty thing to see.

The next time he says "I need to go out on my own sometimes" you can say "that's fine, when you're a grownup, you can go do whatever you want. But right now you're three, and that means you stay with me, because you're not capable yet of understanding what freedom entails, nor do you have the ability to perceive threats and possible consequences."

Or, alternatively, "But right now you're three, and that means you stay with me, because I'm the Mom."

I bought some child development college textbook, which I thought would be more useful than it was; it was much broader and described (in stereotype) groups of society's children. I forgot if I mailed it to my sister, or meant to mail it to my sister, or donated it to the library. It did say that two years old looks for security (stability leads to bravery and independence) and four years old studies on boundaries and independance. Meanwhile even though asynchronous gifted kids are observant and insightful and conversational there is something called the Prelogical stage (Piaget version, not the classical liberal arts definition of "Prelogical"). http://media.lanecc.edu/users/kime/Psy201lifespanB.pdf

Crud. I hit submit.

Quote:

Egocentrism: The tendency for preoperational children to have difficulty in viewing the world from someone else’s perspective or point of view. Psychologists are NOT using egocentrism to mean selfishness or conceit as social psychologists use the word.

End Quote.

That goes up to around age 7. Even though gifted kids have bursts of insight and make connections it's still just better if you don't EXPECT them to "see what you're saying", even though they do more often than not.


EtA: not that you quit talking to them about it. "if they only understand a tenth of what you're telling them then you only have to tell them ten times for them to get it. Or a hundred. Or a thousand. Or whatever." -dad

There's a book that says how they get the whales at sea world to jump is they set the bar so low. At first they put the rope literrally on the ground and give the whale a treat every time it swims over it, then they gradually lift the rope.

I'm not a fan of either approach. The first one is belittling, and the second one is an invitation to rebellion.

In my DD's case we already had this problem solved before she was three. We'd catch DD doing some unsafe behavior, and we'd ask her to stop. She'd ask why, and we'd tell her what was going to happen. She'd refuse, and as long as the consequences weren't going to be more significant than a boo-boo, we'd stand by and let events unfold as predicted. Then, after a quick injury check, we'd say, "See. Told ya."

This led DD to wonder how in the world we knew what was going to happen. Clearly, we knew things that she didn't, and listening to us was a good way to avoid getting hurt.

So, when she was three and ran away from us in a parking lot for the very first time, DW yelled, "STOP!", and DD froze in her tracks.

She demanded to know why, of course.

I understand what you're saying, but I was speaking to the unsafe behaviors that would result in more than a "boo boo".

What you would call belittling (i.e. contemptibly small or unimportant), I would call explaining to the kid why he is not going to get what he wants. In other words, a reasonable "no".

And kids rebel normally-it's how they find boundaries. While I don't typically do the "because I'm the Mom, that's why" thing, sometimes it's instructive for them to learn that life does unreasonable, unfair things to you occasionally, and there's just no arguing with it. Suck it up, and move on, kid.

Look, there are times to be nice, soft, goofy, loving, sweet and permissive. Keeping your kid safe is not one of those times, in my opinion.

As am I. The point is that you establish your credentials with the small stuff, and then they'll listen to you when it really matters.


We'll just have to agree to disagree on the definition of "reasonable," then.


False dichotomy.

Hi, KW3

When my DD (extremely independent type) went through that when she was that age, I told my senior neighbor (age 88 or so at that time) because I was exasperated and nervous, and she suggested a plan that DD "run away" to her house (they were super cuddly friends).

When DD left the back door with her backpack on, I called the neighbor, she positioned herself to see (our yards were visible to each other) and I watched DD out the window, then snuck out to the patio until the neighbor, casually hanging laundry and "unaware" connected with DD.

Our neighbor listened with "oh, you poor dear" about DD's woes that I did not allow her any freedoms, DD got a glass of milk and a couple of cookies, was told that mothers have to do such things but isn't it just awful anyway?, and after about 1 hour, the phone rang that DD was coming back.

Once DD did this, it was out of her system and we never heard about it again. Got to be casual about it though.

Not everyone has a situation or a dear neigbor friend from a totally different generation, but maybe you could think about it and tweak it.

Respectfully, I feel obliged to say that your post reminded me very much of my relationship with my mother in particular and also of our DD8's relationship with her teacher this year--neither of which are models for successful relationships. Particularly with at least some gifted kids who have a strong sense of independence, IMO it is very important to not just 'pull rank' and have an authoritarian approach to dealing with disagreements because you are just setting yourself up for much bigger problems down the road, particularly when your kid gets older. I think it can be important to explain the rationale (i.e., safety and what could happen--toned down if necessary) and also to offer choices when possible--for example, "you can hold my hand or [another adult's or older kid's] hand in the parking lot, but drivers often have trouble seeing kids when they're backing out and one of my jobs is to keep you safe--so what do you choose?" Again respectfully, it sounds to me like your son feels like he does not have as much control as he would like over at least some of the particulars in his life, so I think it might be helpful to consider finding some ways to give him more choices (or apparent choices) so that he can find a constructive outlet for his independence.

That way, IMO, the situation is framed less like it's you against him and more like you are trying to solve a problem together.

Best wishes,
Dbat

It sounds like you are a finding a good balance between safety and sympathy. I would encourage him to explore 'in his imagination.' For example, I would encourage him to write a nonfiction book about safety for 3 year olds. As if he was writing for an audience of 3 year olds to learn the rules of what is safe to do and not to do. That way he gets to experience freedom, satisfy his need to be seen as an athority, and you get to see what his ideas about safety actually are. It may be that he can safely cross a quiet street and once you know what he is ready to handle you can give him some bigger opportunities.

Then you can encourage him to do some fictional adventure stories about kids who didn't follow the rules.

I would also load him up with household responsibilities, so he can feel 'responsible' - he may be able to do some laundry chores, some kitchen chores. A friend told me that the trick to getting children to do chores was to let them do jobs that they were a breath away from being able to do successfully. I didn't have much luck with it, but it sounds good.

As for leaving the park, that's a tough one. I think I was still wearing a sling at that point, and offered the choice:Do you want to leave like a big boy or do you want Uppies? If mine couldn't or wouldn't leave 'like a big boy' then it was 'up and into the sling.' I only like to play games if the deck is stacked in my favor. We were lucky that there weren't times when I'd have to do a punishment later. (Usually the problem was that he'd throw a pebble at a friend and so it was time to leave in a 'up and into the sling' way. Suprising that it took such a bright boy so many times to learn, but learn he did.) I also had a watch with a timer, so I would start the whole thing by offering to go now or in 5 minutes. We called it his 'time to do the last thing.'
The next town over had an 'indoor sports center' which was a contained space with a bubble and a giant playscape inside where he could run out of eyesight safely.

Good luck!
Grinity

I am more with Kjj on this one. DD took off at 2 one time, when I couldn't get past a bunch of people, all with strollers. Another mother grabbed her before she went into a busy street.

She was bent on having her way and what she was doing. A year later, a boy in her space camp saw her at the band playing on the beach and when his mother wouldn't let him watch fireworks with her, he talked Dd (he was 4, she was 3) into running off, hand in hand, down the boardwalk while his mother and I were running after them.

The older they get, they can create very "logical" reasons for what they want to do. If you are not one step ahead of this gifted child, then God help you when puberty hits. They'll be like me, throwing parties for 400 people, so they can build social skills.

I think Grinity gave you some wonderful, concrete ideas. I try to find a balance so my kids know "Mom means business" but not so ultra-controlling that they can't be silly/fun/creative/adventurous kids. But running off without permission is just dangerous...and I'm more strict about safety issues than, say, table manners.

What I tell my clients is to teach an issue before if it is forseen or after to re-teach, discuss or even debate...but during a conflict: what mom or dad says goes. If you argue/debate with them when they're angry they will either not listen entirely or discount your valid points due to their anger. It will also teach them to get into a heated debate with you anytime they are upset as a diversion or just to tick you off.

It sounds like you had a good debrief with your DS after the incident, and you're trying to check yourself. Gifted kids are goooooood at making compelling arguments, but rules don't always have to make sense...or be agreeable. But as parents we do them a huge injustice if we raise our kids to abide only by the rules they find fitting.

 Quote:

It's really hard to have a high school level science conversation with a young child and then have them throw a fit about something they are expected to do every morning. I realize I have no idea what other kids do in the morning but it seems as though my friend’s kids who are not PG are able to get out to school on time.

Jane: If you could be a fly on the wall in most homes, you would know that you are not alone. Your idea about having the kids dress first is a good one, but even better would be to have a family meeting, share the problem with the kids, and then sit back and listen to their ideas about how to solve the problem. If they don't have some good ideas (because they may not yet be trained to be problem-solvers), you might need to interject, "How about _____." Even when they do come up with a plan, don't expect it to work forever. Their plans will work for a while before you need to have another family meeting and invite them to come up with another plan. Good practice to become good problem-solvers. :-)

End quote.
Quote is 3/4 of the way down the article.

http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10569.aspx

The article linked here is from the database on the left handed sidebar of this forum.  Hope this helps.

My D often ran away and had to be chased down at that age. She used to head down the block, with the knowledge that she was not to go around the corner (there was an alley halfway around the block, and cars came flying out of it without stopping). More than once she would head down the block with assurances that she would not go beyond the corner, then head around it full tilt. It was a full out sprint for me to catch her before she got to the alley. When she did that, she was taken straight inside with no more outside time that day. Later she was diagnosed with a non-verbal learning disability... I have heard that an inability to safely walk in parking lots & cross the street can be a symptom of that. No telling if that is why she had no concern for her own safety at three, though. Maybe it was just her being three.

Also, I recall that feeling of being caged when growing up. I remember a camping trip we took in the mountains when I was six, and how glorious it felt to hike and play in that much open space. I ditched my mom and hiked around a small lake (jumped a stream she did not want to cross, and just kept going). 45 years later it is still one of the best memories I have in my whole life -- cavorting all the way around this lake while my mom stood on the opposite shore shouting at me. Maybe take your son hiking and camping if you can.

See, I don't sweat the small stuff. I let them go nuts with ideas, directions, and crazy inventions. When they coated the bathroom, top to bottom, with conditioner when they were 4 & 5, to see if they could make a frictionless surface because we'd watched a show about maglev trains and they were fascinated by it, I didn't get mad, and they didn't get punished. Small stuff in terms of "wrongitude", but big in terms of creative thinking.

They shot out the door or disappeared under a rack of clothing in a store-major, major punishment. Copious sweating.


That's a flip response. Your world may have more shades of gray in it than mine, it doesn't make my world "false".

Look, they're 12 and 13 now, and except for still making incredible messes when they come up with ideas, they have a fairly good sense of what's right and wrong, and what's a reasonable risk. They've learned that a rational argument will get them much closer to what they want rather than temper tantrums.

They've learned that impulsive behavior is a non-starter, and to think before they act. Well, most of the time-we all knee jerk with stuff occasionally, but just having the awareness that "oops, should have thought that one through" is really valuable.

I'm trying to get them to adulthood with an ability to function in society, be able to accurately anticipate consequences, and make the best of a sometimes crappy situation. Those are good skills to learn, and I think the sooner, the better.

Those skills are just really no fun to teach, though.

What worked for me - say what you mean, only what you mean, and mean it every single solitary time. Negotiate and give freedom on choices whenever possible, but when you have made a decision that something isn't up for a vote (such as safety, harming another child, etc.), don't confuse your child by letting them think they have any choice other than to do as told. Learning to live within boundaries, respect authority, and accept directions are vital, especially for our children who have minds that allow them to rationalize just about anything they want to do.

When I told my children no, it meant no. And if they defied me, I made sure the consequences were upsetting enough that they considered that the next time. You can't have kids defying you when what you've told them is to stay by your car because you're next to a highway and trying to get the baby out of the carseat. You just can't ever let them think that defying you is worth it or even a possibility under those circumstances.

By the same token, when it doesn't matter, don't make it matter. Don't put up power struggles where none need to exist. If your kid wants to wear a Darth Vader cape for weeks, let him. Who cares? If your kids wants to try peas and peanut butter and honey, let them. If they want to make a total mess of their room with Legos right after you spent an hour cleaning it up, does it really matter? If you're not having the Queen of England over, what's the big deal?

Our children do need to feel they have autonomy and freedom to begin choosing according to their own likes and interests. But they also need to know someone is in charge and looking out for them and keeping them safe. Not providing a balance of both is terribly confusing and frustrating for just about any child.

Other than possibly slipping on the floor and getting a boo-boo, I don't see where this anecdote relates to safety.


I didn't say your world was false, I said your binary proposition was. You can be nice, goofy, etc., while still keeping your child safe.

For example, my DD was expected to hold a parent's hand when traversing a parking lot. She usually held a hand from both parents, and we'd occasionally pull her off her feet and swing her forward. Safe, and goofy.

And now she had more than one reason to voluntarily comply.


Now you seem to be buying into the false dichotomy that not being authoritarian equals tantrums. See authoritative parenting.


That's a shame, because impulsiveness can be a lot of fun. Also, if you're just telling your child, "Because I said so!", you're not giving them the tools they need to think things through.


We have the same goal, just not the same approach.


Not the way you're suggesting, it wouldn't.

I'd like to refer folks back to the Board Rules. I think that every child is different and every parent is different, so there needs to be a way to talk about what works for individual families in a way that doesn't open the door to judgment and attack of any of us. I've only parented one kid, and I can say that what I wish my parents had done for me sure wasn't what my own kid needed. It took a while to figure that out. I am sure that if I had more than one child, I would need to find different approaches for each of them. I believe that one thing we can offer our kids is to parent them in a way that is respectful of our own individual values. So it's going to look different for different combos of kid+parent. Let's worry less about defending our own viewpoints and more about painting a picture of the range of possibilities, ok?

Every gifted parent I know resonates with so many possible paths, and yet, at times we have to pick one and walk it.

Make sense?
Grinity

Every parent has the choice on how to parent, within the law, though some of the choices these kids make is scarey, even choices we made are not safe.

Talking with a DA today, every bag of marijuana sold in NYC is laced with crystal meth.

A 7 year old kid was grabbed as he went into his school. There is some one there watching as they get off the bus, but this guy still grabbed him.

There was some kids on some kid site and some predator got on and met with some of them and raped 3 kids.

Risk averse is not terrible in today's age.

How can you make a consequence serious enough to bug a 3 tr old?

You know what got my kid to stop running away in parking lots? A bag of smarties, distributed one by one for staying with me and cooperating. It was never a problem again.

Depends on the kid. For my DS, misbehaving in public meant a time-out wherever we were (on the grocery store floor comes to mind). He was embarrassed and usually shaped up for many trips.

The consequence has to be meaningful to the child. WHat is currency for the child...a certain toy, game, book? The freedom to get from one place to another under his own volition? It is different for every kid. For my oldest, she would lose a toy for a set amount of time, for my younger, it was having to wear a harness when walking in public. Of course, the "currency" changes as they got older. But I do think that what ever you choose needs to mean something.

But for a 3 yr old??? Nothing is worth enough to him to matter.

You have a stubborn one....4 is infinitely easier than 3. 5 is easier than 4....here's hoping 6 carries on the trend before it goes backwards again around 9.

I actually, now that I've thought about it, have decided not to tell my son he has to stay beside me "because I don't trust him". I really wanted to nip that in the bud, that laughing and running when it's time to go. When he was younger it was "walk, be carried, or be dragged out over my shoulder.". Haven't had to drag him over my shoulder in quite a while. Tic tacs are a great motivator at all times. Did not have them on me or thing about it but i do use them practcally always for the carseat wars (nonexistant) and for easy shopping. That's why it's a good thing to be able to talk these things out, even if it's in a chatroom. It helps to talk out what you really mean to do.

I do use the "tomato staking" the "time ins" the, what else have I heard it called, when I keep him close to me when he's not behaving so well. There's reason to talk it to death on top of it.

Actually, your son has already told you what matters most to him - independence and the ability to make his own choices. When he stays by your side, doesn't run away, comes when you tell him it's time to go, etc., reward him immediately verbally and with the promise of an immediate freedom.

For example, "Look at how you came when I called you. I am so proud of you for being so responsible. And because you came when I called, I think I'm ok if you don't hold my hand from here to the curb - as long as you stop and wait for me there."

And by the same token, you immediately remove a freedom when he ignores your request. "I asked you to come, and instead of showing me how you could be responsible, you ran away. That isn't ok, because it meant I had to run after you and that you were paying more attention to running away than to being safe. And because of that, I am going to carry you to the car because I can't trust that you'll stay by me where you are safe from the traffic."

He's smart. He'll get it, and I bet he gets it fast.

Currency with my kids is RARELY about things - taking them away, offering gifts, etc. They really didn't care, and they were happy to go without their things in order to have freedom and autonomy. So I had to learn that what they would work for was to gain freedom through actions that made me think they were able to handle that freedom.

It's a pain in the neck, because you have to be consistent. Every time, whether you're tired or stressed out or having an argument with your spouse. You have to be prepared to be "on" all the time until they've tested your limits enough to know it isn't going to change and that there isn't a way to distract or manipulate you into giving up and just letting them do what they wanted because it's easier at the moment.

And, this worked with my kids. I don't even pretend to know your kid or what will work for your family. This is just from my perspective of what I've learned over the 21 years I've been raising gifted, highly independent, exhausting kids.

Honestly, ABQmon, that's not it. What he wants is full-on follow-my-lead asttention. There's just not enought of that to make taking a little or giving a little meaningful. He wants 300% of what he gets, and needs about 200% of it.

I guess I kinda think most people for whom your approach works must somehow be doing a whole lot more than just that. I just don't know what, and I'm not sure even the people who do know what it is...

I'm not quite sure what you mean there, but as I said, it worked for mine but may be entirely the wrong approach for yours.

Hope you find something that fits - it sounds exhausting.

For my son when he was two/three, street and parking lot rules were laid out with a big dose of fear/reality. I found a big SUV parked in a parking lot and had him stand at the bumpers. He could easily see how the driver can't see him. I also pointed out dented cars and we talked about the force/strength/power necessary to bend the metal. He quickly put it together that his 40lb. squishy body would not handle a collision well.
At four, he is very careful in parking lots and crossing the street.

My daughter would have considered being carried across the parking lot a reward, not a punishment.

Lots of gifted kids experience most of what passes for punishment as a reward. We might be yelling or spanking or weeping or barking - but it's all so very exciting and interesting. Like candy for our intense little ones.

Have you even found that you can't stop wiggling a sore tooth? Even painful experiences can be rewards.

People sure are complicated, eh?
wink
Grinity

I don't see this as a gifted thing. In general, kids love being carried. It's like a carnival ride, with a dose of close human contact added in.

Grinity had a good point that making parents crazy can often be reward for kids...much like the way teasing a big sister is fun despite the fact the teasing is usually followed by a hard punch. I know Transforming the Difficult Child has been mentioned on these boards before. I like to combine the concepts of Dr. Phelan's no-talking, no-emotion approach (123 Magic series) and the ideas from Howard Glasser about a "difficult" child's motivation for misbehavior.

I also see Dude's point that this is true of all kids...some more than others.

Last week DD tried a fast one, which would have brought a watching parent to tears. I told her I knew what was up and explained why and wherefore. Then I got to real remorse from her.

It was a good one though.

Motivation for misbehavior? I don't think that is so tough to figure out for any child.

Ren

I distinctly remember faking to be asleep on the couch at bedtime sometimes when I was little so my father would carry me upstairs. He probably knew I was faking but I rarely if ever had "alone time" with him so I suppose I admit, I manipulated the whole thing, and he indulged.

I was getting more desparate with the dashing toward the street thing with DD (and she was a strong and successful wiggler-awayer) and did the trying-to-scare her with being little and getting squished, and a neighbor with 4 grown girls told me he really disapproved,that every child would learn this when they were ready. Then I felt super guilty like I had now scarred her for life. Be calm and it not might sink in, be too dramatic you scar them or they just get into the drama...I still think that creating situations where they feel freedom but they are secretly safe is a good way to go.

Yup - we started with 123 Magic, with was better, in our hands, at halting unwanted behavior than creating wanted behavior, and then moved on to Transforming with Glasser. I found that much better at working with the 'insides' to grow the child so that he could start that 'virtuous cycle' that good bahavior brings.

Smiles,
Grinity

LOL. The three of us often snuggle together in my bed at night to watch a movie. When the movie is over and it's time for DD to go to bed, she'll pretend to be asleep. I'll pretend she's a little baby and I don't want to wake her, then handle her in ways guaranteed to wake the dead (sling her over my shoulder fireman's style, etc.), and dump her rudely into bed. She keeps her eyes closed the whole time, and fails to fully suppress her grin.


It depends on the child's personality. It's certainly possible that a child will be scarred by this information, and it's up to you to figure out if that's a potential problem or not. I would expect that to be a small minority, though. The world is a scary place for little ones, and if they're noticing things to be afraid of and nobody is talking about them, that can lead to some serious anxiety problems.

We explained to DD why it was important to hold our hands... drivers can't see her, she's not fully aware of her surroundings, etc. And then we explained why holding our hands mattered... drivers can see us, we're always scanning for potential dangers, and by keeping contact we can stop her or pull her along depending on the situation.

And here's why this is a really good conversation to have... she's learning a lot more than just parking lot behavior here. There's an underlying subtext in this conversation, in which she learns that her parents are smart, they're anticipating dangers, and she can trust us to keep her safe. So although the conversation starts out quite alarming, the end result is quite comforting. Rather than scarring, the conversation promotes a sense of security.

Another benefit: voluntary compliance. Then you don't have to worry about them feeling free and being secretly safe. It still feels like freedom if holding hands was her choice.

That's a really nice message, Dude. The older DD gets and the more I think and also reflect back on my own childhood, what you said about "The world is a scary place for little ones, and if they're noticing things to be afraid of and nobody is talking about them, that can lead to some serious anxiety problems" is absolutely true.

One thing my mother and her brothers and sisters were/are good at is the continuous stream of talking about things and offering practical solutions to avoid or sensibly react to danger and things. This is in part because of how many firefighters are in the family. My uncles had so many games that incorporated safety and would have the cutest responses to our anxieties when we were little (they'd also really "bark" at us if we pulled something unsafe like taking off...the boys would be grabbed by the collar...they were generally worse than us girls.)

I don't believe after these several years that I've scarred DD. She is a very practical child overall, under the cover of the drama. When we're near alot of traffic or someplace unfamiliar now, she will slip her hand in mine and stay close without me saying anything, even though she'll be 9 this summer. I hadn't thought about the fact that she might think I'm smart about things (I do take it as a sign of trust) but that's a really nice thought, quite complimentary!!