Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment WISC-IV TESTING

Good Morning everyone, I am new to forums, so please be patient with me. I would like to get some imput on my sons test scores and why the low coding. A little background about me, My father was Dyslexic and I just recently found out that I had MAT 6 testing in 3rd grade and was on a 5th to 8th grade level on scatters. I dont know if this may be a piece of the puzzle but thought I would throw it out there. Although, I was never tested for Dyslexia itself, I did have multiple MAT test done until the 5th grade , when I later moved and school became very difficult for me. My parents never advocated for me; or I feel, I would have excelled. Hopefully, someone can give me some insight on his testing, as the exhaustive research I have done online has left me confused as what to do? My son was in the 5th grade last yr when he had this testing done, in order to put a 504 in place for middle school (which has done no good).Please Help!!!


VERB COMP 104
PERC REAS 121
WORKING MEM 91
PROC SPEED 85

VERBAL COMP SUBTEST PERCEPT REASONING SUB
SIMILARITIES 13 BLOCK DESIGN 13
VOCAB 10 PICTURE CONCEPTS 12
COMP 10 MATRIX REASONING 15

WORKING MEMORY SUBTEST PROC SPEED SUBTEST
DIGIT SPAN 7 CODING 5
LETTER NUMER SEQUENCE 10 SYMBOL SEARCH 10

What did the online information suggest?

What did the 504 plan consist of, and what about it isn't working?

Grinity

The 504 that was put in place said he just needed extra time, but they also lessened his homework to half. Even thought that had been done he was still bringing home horrible grades. I spoke with a woman about the possibility of Dyslexia and she said its , with that said, I think its possible he might be ADD but I dont want to get him improperly diagnosed. I spoke with Center for the gifted in Albany and she reffered me to this lady to test for Dyslexia. She also said it would affect his testing scores as for the coding. I want to push him because I know he can do the work.

I'm not sure if I'm correct, but I think school is mostly about what is measured on Verbal subscale. I've heard it said that the Verbal subscale is about 'have you retained what is taught in a usable way.' This is why Math tests go on the Verbal subscale.

I think of the Performance subscale as the 'MacGyver' measure - how well do you do in a situation that nothing can prepare a person for.

If you son is as described on the test (this is a big if) then he is going to have 'average' grades in school, and if he is slow to boot, then he may well do 'below average.' There isn't much MacGyver called for in Middle School.

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I would definitely have your son checked for ADHD, and for AS.(Tanking in middle school is classic for AS, as the work becomes more abstract and less memorization oriented, and the kids don't spend all day with the same teacher.)

Even though his Perceptual Reasoning is above normal at 121, it shouldn't be so high that he is likely to be misdiagnosed. (Assuming again that the tests are reading him correctly.) Probably better to move ahead and risk misdiagnosis than to be stuck for long with 'horrible grades' that could have been avoided.

Does this fit the kind of mismatch you are seeing? Personally, if MacGyver is saving me with some cool plan, I don't care if he can name 3 causes of the American Revolution.
Best Wishes,
Grinity

Thanks Grinity,

Thats exactly what Im seeing!! He can do the work if its presented in a different manner. Lectures for him are boring and hes more a visual spatial learner. Schools dont have time for that and cant make exceptions. This is why I have chosen to homeschool next year.

I feel, hes trying his best but its just not working for him. I dont want him to get discouraged. It amazes me because he can do difficult algebra problems but simple ones he struggles on. Its like he thinks they are harder than what they are.

Thanks again, I appreciate it and will have to look into the ADHD. I guess its just something you really dont wanna hear but know it already.

What just isn't working? Homeschool? Public School? Are things ok now?

Lots of kids struggle with the simpler problems. Two things are going on -
1) the simple problems call for memorization, and that is difficult for almost all kids. Becoming emotionally disciplined enough to do rote memorization is an important part of growing. (Notice I didn't say the only or even the major, just essential.)

2)It's difficult to work 'below one's readiness level' - that is, it's easier to focus on a job that isn't boring. Try it yourself, and if you are like most people, you will see. A great example is typing a posting on a numeric keypad on a cell phone. Easy to understand how to do it - just press the numbers several times to scroll to the letter you want, right? But very hard to do, and hard to motivate oneself to do as well. This is particularly true for kids with ADHD issues.

Super book recommendation for kids who have to try a little harder to let their light shine:

Transforming the Difficult Child Workbook: An Interactive Guide to The Nurtured Heart Approach by Lisa Bravo, Howard Glasser and Joann Bowdidge (Jan 12, 2008)
-goes with -
Notching Up the Nurtured Heart Approach - The New Inner Wealth Initiative for Educators - Perfect Paperback (Jan. 23, 2011) by Howard Glasser with Melissa Block,

Best Wishes,
Grinity

A WIAT-II Academic was also given, this is all new territory for me. The GAI would be higher if I didnt use the WMI correct?

The school didnt want to conform to the 504 by using tape recorder for notes because he has a problem copying from the board. All they said, you really shouldnt take him off it. Numerous conversations with his case worker led nowhere. She gave no suggestions other than he complete his homework and try harder. He struggles to get answers out of his head on paper.

I want to thank both of you for taking the time to answer my questions. Is there other testing that can be done? The lady that is assessing his WISC-IV and WIAT II right now said a Stanford Binet should have been done. How is this different?

I am wondering who did the evaluation (school or private), and what question(s) you wanted answered. Is the student struggling in school? Is there boredom? How is attention? Were concerned about anything you were observing as it relates to school and life?

I'm with Dottie - no diagnosis can be made based on one test alone. While the WISC does give you some important insight into his profile, areas of strength and challenge, it cannot be used to diagnose an LD or much of anything. While kids with LD often have scatter between their scores with lower PSI, WMI, this alone does not indicate what the problem is. It does seem that your child is a visual thinker and I'd want more info in the following areas based on the few snipits that you've shared:

Academic testing (you said he had the WIAT - what were the subtest scores?)
Memory testing (short, long term, visual, verbal)
Speech and Language (is there a language issue that is related to the lower VCI and reading issues)
Reading evaluation (CTOPP, GORT, TOWRE and others)

The Stanford Binet is another IQ test that measures many of the same skills as the WISC. The construct behind the test is slightly different, and I would ask the evaluator why the SB would be a good choice. Another option would be a non-verbal IQ test such as the C-Toni that does not use language. If language processing is an issue (and I am not sure based on the info you've provided), it may give you a better read of his thinking skills.

Wiat Scores

Reading

Word Reading 90
Reading Comp 98
Pseudoword Reading 90

Composite 90


Mathematics

Numerical Operations 98
Mathematics reasoning 104

Composite 100


Written Language

Spelling 88
Written Language 96


Composite 89

Sorry about the two individual posts, I have typed it 3 times and it disappeared on me. URG. The evaluations were done by school not private.

While I am concerned there maybe an underlying issue at hand with ADD,I feel this is the only one the school wants addressed. I feel he can do it if presented in a manner appropriate to his learning style. I recently spoke to Gifted Center in Albany and they said the worst thing I could possibly do is get him mislabled as ADHD and not bringing out his giftedness with it and was referred to this lady that is assessing his other test scores now for possible Dyslexia DX. I know he is bright, he just needs it presented differently. Seems to me schools just dont care. I recently got my elementary testing to see if that would be part of the puzzle. I think although, I cant figure out those scores either..while in 4th grade I was testing 6th grade level. Is this normal? Is this a piece of the puzzle? Did I fall through the Educational Cracks? This is something I dont want my children to go through. I didnt have parents to advocate for me, and I want to do better for mine.