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    Joined: Feb 2011
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    It's on my hold list at the library!!

    That other bewildered parent needs to return it so that I can have it. wink

    We've worked our way through a few other executive function/skills books lately, and while there are some things that seem to "fit" there is just a general sense (independently, both DH and I) that it doesn't quite come into focus with her. That is, the behaviors are not especially broad spectrum, nor pervasive, and there are things that flat out don't fit.

    We both had the sense that "Oh, yeah... I've seen that before... but, uhh, not in {DD} really." So we recognized the behaviors from our observations in the classroom-- but the picture just doesn't quite fit DD, if that makes sense. Not when you look at the big picture with her, anyway.

    DH and I are quite different in our cognitive processing, so the fact that we BOTH felt that way is a pretty good indicator that our instincts are good, I think.


    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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    I think it explains Dabrowski's theory SO WELL. Positive disintegration--this seems like exactly what your dd could be going through. And for me, if I were in a situation like she is, framing it in that way would be very helpful.

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    You also may want to contact Dr. Edward Amend, who is based in Kentucky. I talked with him via phone and he was and incredable resource. He would be able to help with sources in your area. He is one of the authors of the Misdiagnosis book. He returned my call and talked to me for an hour about my situation at the time. I had the best luck in calling his office and leaving a message.

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    Wow-- thank you all SO MUCH. You've given my family such wonderful food for thought on this, and I cannot begin to say thank you enough.

    Here's an (amusing) example of how my luck works:

    "Living With Intensity" disappeared off my hold list. When I investigated this more fully yesterday (thanks for mentioning the book again, since this is what prompted me to look again), apparently that other bewildered parent needs to read Late, Lost, and Unprepared or something, because the book I was next in line for?

    Is MISSING/LOST now.

    AUGH!

    Ordered the last copy on Amazon this morning. Sheesh.

    And no, my name isn't "Murphy" but I can see why you'd ask... wink


    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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    Originally Posted by vicam
    You also may want to contact Dr. Edward Amend, who is based in Kentucky. I talked with him via phone and he was and incredable resource. He would be able to help with sources in your area. He is one of the authors of the Misdiagnosis book. He returned my call and talked to me for an hour about my situation at the time. I had the best luck in calling his office and leaving a message.


    Ditto. Dr. Ed seems awesome. We met him last summer at a talk - he chatted briefly with us and later with dd about whether or not dd needed a 2nd opinion. He did mention that he could review her previous raw scores and do a phone conference with us later if she hit another rocky patch. For us, it seemed like the right approach. Even if you tested locally, it seems like he would be a good person to consult about the PG/2E issues after you get all the raw data.

    Out of curiosity, if you where going to travel for a consultation, do you think your dd would prefer talking to a man or a woman? Just a thought... And Living with Intensity is a good read, but it doesn't offer any solutions, which honestly is why I ordered it from Amazon - our local library doesn't have it.


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    Another Ditto for Dr. Amend is awesome!

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    Gaaaaaaa!

    Another day, another setback, and an unfathomable thought-process on my parenting partner's behalf.

    DH was supposed to help DD to prepare for a math exam that she has been avoiding (performance-avoidance, perfectionism at work... she is developing self-handicapping which I, being a person who has BTDT, has that teeshirt, recognize for precisely what it is).

    His method was to hand her a set of review problems (guaged by similarity to exam material)-- and verbally ask her periodically if she was "working" on them or not. As long as she answered in the affirmative, he thought all was well. (Yes, that's right, not checking to see if she was understanding, writing things out, or checking her own answers.) She started on the exam last night after studying using Dad's method all afternoon, and it went reasonably well... at first...

    then it all started to fall apart. In other words, the first ten questions.... good. The next three, not-so-good. At that point, I sent her to bed.

    Her answer, apparently, was to stay up late and read (leisure), then get up super early (~2-4h sleep) and make a mess in the kitchen... then finish working on the exam, which she angrily started to CRY over after about ten minutes. Unfortunately for her, I found a list/drawing in her bathroom indicating that she PLANNED her sleeplessness. UN-REAL.



    So yes, I was angry with her for pulling this stunt, given our very careful ramp back up toward this math class (which she is just about having kittens over at the moment, given her grade in it... another F on an exam isn't going to help, that's for sure).

    DH's answer?

    He called the local public middle school to ask about enrollment. crazy

    (No, not kidding.)

    His thinking, apparently is that "other kids like her have to learn to manage, so can she" (re: her disability, which is definitely about 2SD from the norm for THAT condition), and discovered that, uhhhhh.... not only will they not even 'consider' enrollment as an 8th grader (due to her age-- 11), apparently it wouldn't matter anyway since she's already outstripped the math available there.

    Oh, but not to worry. We could (apparently-- I have my doubts personally since she has official public school transcripts indicating that she has passed state benchmarks for 8th grade at this point) just enroll her as a 6th grader. Undifferentiated curriculum, mind you. That's right. My child, who is struggling with the fact that she's only NOW being 'challenged' academically-- oh, and only in the one class-- could... just... go... back... and do grades 6, 7, 8, and 9 over. Yes, the same child that was disappointed that the coverage of Romeo and Juliet was "pretty superficial" this year in freshman honors English.

    DH's attitude is that this will "teach her a lesson" and at least make it all someone ELSE'S problem.

    (Yes, I know, but he refuses to even hear me about the magnitude of homework battles this would turn into.)

    I'm truly sort of dumbfounded by my spouse at this juncture.

    Amazed. But not in a good way.







    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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    I told DH that if he's willing to place her at that kind of risk, then he ought to have contacted the HIGH SCHOOL about enrollment in the fall.

    Because at least there, she stands to be in a more appropriate academic setting as a return on the risk to her safety (re: disability).


    Honestly, though, I am just horrified.

    I think that the social interactions could be positive in the high school, but I seriously doubt it in middle school. Kids take being "the smartest" way too seriously in this town... probably because so many of their parents care so much, frankly.

    We know from discussions with other families that have been enrolled in local schools and (our) virtual school that the level of instruction is close to an order of magnitude higher where she is placed now.

    We clearly have a kid who is struggling mightily because of performance-avoidant strategies related to perfectionism, probably brought on by inappropriately unchallenging curriculum (ie-- 100% is the ONLY 'authentic' goal to strive for, so she's done it, mostly with success) for the last six years...now morphed into a possible budding ED, risk aversion, and procrastination...

    and my spouse's answer is to punish her by... making her do the last three years over again?? But... slower this time...

    crazy

    I truly don't even know what to say to him.


    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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    Breathing is always a good strategy when dealing with those crazy creatures called spouses wink

    Seriously though, what caught my attention here is what he thinks middle school would do differently. She was presented the material by the virtual school, told to study for it, did not, or did so partially, did poorly and then responded in the negative way which you all are so concerned about. So if she went to a bricks and morter school, teacher would present the material, she would already know it, either do well deciding to play the game or melt down because it was such a waste of her time. But let's imagine for a moment they actually taught her something she did not know, then would give her a test on it, she would either study or not, fail or not and throw a fit or not. Just like every other kid her age !!!! and like every other family, parent s have a choice about whether they get tiger parenty on the kid about exams or let them sink on their own or something in between.

    Seems to me if I were to judge and but in based on your version (which does set him up a bit smile ) he had an opportunity to engage her and work with her and chose not to, this is the choice he would have whether she went bricks and mortar or not. PG or not, asking a kid are you doing what you are supposed to do and then just trusting the answer when you have had issues and then getting pissed at her for it seems a bit odd. But you seem angry at him for throwing up his hands and calling the school - my
    reaction was to you asking him to work with her and his version of that. Seems like it took two to tango here. Do you usually work with her and asked him to do this, or were you trying to find another way to get her to participate?

    DeHe

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    Yes, it was an alternative method in an effort to get her to set aside some mental roadblocks, since she's taken to tuning me out, and her avoidance in this particular class is, well, turned up to eleven, shall we say...

    He simply doesn't listen to me about her learning style or her level of manipulation/avoidance. He's also been putting it off and letting her "play" for the last four days instead of getting to it, but that's another issue. I am plenty mad at him for handling the situation so badly, for sure. I got mad at her this morning not over the math test, but over the fact that she planned to only get 2-4 hours of sleep and because this was in the wake of me taking her computer yesterday after discovering her on CoolMath when she was supposed to be entering a (completed) English exam.

    SHE is the one who is all in a tizzy over her grades. Seriously. This isn't us. We don't really care, but she went berserk last semester chasing straight A+'s. Even though they confer no additional advantage to her, GPA-wise. Well, I don't care, anyway; DH does, I think. My only concern is that the school environment currently leaves me holding the whip since there aren't a lot of deadlines-- so procrastination as a performance-avoidant strategy makes a lot of sense to my 11yo, if you KWIM. wink Oh, sure, the consequences are pretty bad. But they're a long way off (end of the term, really).



    Exactly-- it isn't like he washes his hands of the problem if we send her off to school. She's going to come home with homework, after all, and she won't want to do THAT, either. Particularly not since it will all be material she was bored to tears by the first time she saw it.


    It's also really unlikely that B&M school would be anything positive at this point, since they have even less differentiation than she's used to, and since the work would be even easier than she had four years ago, it would likely FEED that performance-driven perfectionism even further, probably with additional problems on top as a result of the disability + social issues this opens up.

    It's a nightmare beyond my ability to even wrap my brain around it, honestly.

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