Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Question about Grade Skipping/ Maturity

My gifted 5 year old son was recently moved from kindergarten to first grade 1/2 days every day. (He does academics with first grade and everything else with kindergarten.) Although first grade isn't really challenging him much academically, he seems to me to be much happier and more interested in school. The school has never done this before, but the principal seems willing to let me decide what to do with my son next year. I was leaning toward all day in second grade. I don't like that half days seem to make him stand out with both grades. However, his kindergarten teacher told me yesterday that he's started crying a couple times within the last week. He gets really upset when he thinks someone will not be happy with him. He cried over very minor things. (ex.He thought he hadn't turned in his library book, and the librarian would be angry if he tried to check out another book.) The teacher seems to think he doesn't need to go to higher grades because of the crying/ lack of maturity in handling little things. I'm torn because I agree with her, but I can't see him doing work years below where he is academically. I am just looking for any advice???

I think it's easier to 'hothouse' mature behavior at home and let school be a 'reasonable fit' than it is to deal with the fall out of school making a kid misearble, and eroding the child work ethic, and then trying to afterschool to make up the academics. If you can homeschool him or send him to a different school that can meet his academic needs while keeping him with his agemates, do that, but if you can't, you can't. I think having less attention by being in all one grade is ideal, but of course, once he gets into all day 2nd grade, he may need to go to Math in 3rd grade after a few months. You have to do the best you can with the kid you have.

So basically your son might cry sometimes at school. Even in 2nd grade this probably won't be that big a deal. It isn't due to immaturity, it's due to him being 'aware beyond his years' of things. You can work with him to teach breathing techniques, or just brainstorm his ideas how to 'not cry' during school while validating the 'strong feelings.' You can talk about times when you felt a very strong urge to cry but didn't because in some way you put the needs of the situation first. You can point out to him how much money is in 'tear-jearker' movies because everyone wants to cry a lot more than they do.

Eventually everyone needs to learn when to spontaniously show the depth of their feelings and when to distract themselves and 'stow it for later' - learning to do this flexibly is part of everyone's journey of growing up. And it doesn't happen over night, but I bet if you notice him being strong in any little way, and praise him about it, he'll naturally start being more flexible about what he 'shows' in school.

Example: He is sitting in the car at a stoplight and swinging his legs.
You say: I now that you are having strong feelings about really wanting to get to our destination as fast as possible, and I bet you wish this car had wings. But look at you! You aren't complaining! You aren't yelling about it! You aren't punching your sister or breaking any other rule. You are holding those strong feeling inside and being really strong about it - that shows your maturity.
I'm proud of you.

((More in 'Transforming the Difficult Child Workbook' by Lisa Block and Howard Glasser, if this approach seems appealing.))

Love and More Love,
Grinity

That is pretty much exactly what I'd have said.

As long as you aren't suddenly demanding that your six year old actually be seven or eight years old, like his new academic peers, then teaching coping skills is probably fine.

I'm guessing that you could turn this around, too, and ask if there are other 7 yo boys that cry occasionally at school. Sensitive children are.... more sensitive than their peers. Personally, I think that just is, and it isn't necessarily a sign of immaturity. There are real MEN who cry, too, and I know plenty of women who are pretty much their own waterworks. <raises hand>




So good I had to pull it out and highlight it.

What does your heart tell you is right?

FWIW, I recall dd12 getting upset over something she thought she had done wrong and being so worried that her teacher would be mad that she started crying in 4th grade. She skipped the next year anyway and is still a "sponge" as she describes herself, but she doesn't cry at school anymore.

It is worrysome when they are so sensitve to what a teacher might think. But it does beat by a mile when they are so sensitive that they totally block caring what a teacher might think at all. Imagine a 4th grader just flat out 'calmly' telling the teacher 'No, I am right, you are not.' Now that was really strange!

Also reminds me of the story about when the 7th grade teacher asked
"Do you want me to give you detention?"
and someone I know calmly pulled out his planner and said: "Ok, what days are good for you, because my mom works and has a very tight schedule."
7th grade teacher, who later would become a great fan, was so un-nerved that he dropped the whole idea of a detention.

Our kids are unusal, and they show it sometimes.
Love and More Love,
Grinity

Part of what people define as lack of maturity, is really just traits that are seen in many gifted children: emotionally intense, deeper feelings of things, which may often display itself to someone who doesn't fully understand the gifted child's mind, as immaturity!

I don't think your child's display of emotions show any sort of immaturity. My DD is one of those really emotionally intense children. She used to cry at school all the time. She has learned coping skills, and now that she is older, the smae things that bothered her before, still bother her, but she just doesn't cry as easily. She gets nervous and her heart beats fast, but she can usually stifle the tears. She doesn't like the teacher to think she did something wrong. No child does. That's a normal response. Please do not let the teacher convince you that your child doesn't need more because of maturity. If anything, being in a poor fitting class is going to bring out these feelings even more.

Most of my memories from 2nd grade involve me crying in school. I don't think it's all that uncommon, and it certainly shouldn't be a reason to hold a kid back, IMHO.

I think it's interesting that your DS is occasionally crying when he's in the K classroom and not when he's in the 1st grade classroom. Maybe he's in some way feeling more comfortable and competent in the 1st grade class?

Also, since the crying has just recently been happening, is it possible he's starting to come down with something? Or maybe that someone said something (perhaps innocently, and perhaps minor) that your DS took to heart that made him really feel particularly sensitive about making small mistakes that otherwise wouldn't have flustered him?

Crying, just like smiling, is just a display of emotion. Just because babies typically cry more than older people and babies are considered immature, does not mean crying is a sign of immaturity. This is just bad logic. What is important is why a person is crying, not the act of crying. The same can be said about smiling. Some people smile when bad things happen to others, so smiling is not necessarily a good sign either.

Being upset when you feel you may have done something wrong sounds like a sign of a strong sense of responsibility. The library example you give is a sign of maturity on the part of the child, not necessarily on the part of the librarian IMHO. A child showing they are concerned over having done something wrong sound mature to me. A billionaire wining when the cost of a newspaper goes up 5 cents would in my mind be an immature act. I say act as one act immature act does not mean the person is entirely immature.

However, I don't like these all encompassing terms like mature and intelligent. People are a complex mix of characteristics. No one person is at the same maturity level in all ways. The academic level a child is at should determine the academic level they are placed in. Even the academic level may vary across different courses.

DS7, grade skipped, and in 2nd cried this past weekend at a birthday party, over something so small. Part of it reminds me that he is the youngest and not quite as mature. Part of it is his sensitive nature. He is probably far more mature in school than at home - circumstantial maturity? The issue was something that DH and I had said to him, and I wonder if he really would've reacted the same had a classmate said the same. Probably not.

There are reminders of his immaturity, but also those that confirm he's not quite the same "little kid" away from us.

I agree completely with the posters who've said the crying might have more to do with intensity/sensitivity than with maturity. My DS6 started kindergarten a year early and still cries sometimes in first grade, but he's also a self-critical perfectionist who really takes things to heart. I see this all as part of the gifted package, but even my husband will occasionally tell my son he's too old to be crying over something, so I wouldn't expect a lot of teachers to know the difference between the two. I think it helps if, when a teacher brings up crying, you say something like, "Yeah, he has really strong emotions." It might help him/her look at things in a new way.

My dd5, skipped K to grade 1, cries pretty much everyday at school - either because she worries she's done the wrong thing or that she has missed something important or because she can't decide whether she wants to play with her friends or on the play equipment (looking for the best choice...sigh) and then misses out on doing both. She cries when there is something she find scary in a class video... I could go on. I am very fortunate that the teacher has recognised this as sensitivity rather than immaturity and has some work arounds in place (another trusted kid to give her a hug, etc) - or just expects her to get on with it in some cases, which I think is equally valid at certain times.

At home we're working on realising that every moment can't be perfect and her behaviour can't always be perfect (currently she says she feels guilty whenever she overreacts - so now we're focussing on understanding she shouldn't feel ashamed of her behaviour and look at some other choices she could make in the future). DD is also very conscious of wanting events to work out 'just so' and making sure she follows 'the rules'. So we're having lots of conversation about having to make the best of the moment as it is, otherwise life is going to be pretty disappointing (so few perfect moments). My goodness... sometimes I'm spent by 8am and we haven't even got out the door... sorry I went off on my own tangent.

I know it's been touted on this board a bit recently, but the Living with Intensity book is great and worth a read, even just to get an idea of where their thinking can be at.

I'm very grateful for the advice. I live in a rural area, and I've never met anyone with a child who has skipped a grade. You have given me so much to consider!

I think you have to consider each child's individual personality when making the decision on whether or not to skip.
I have 2 gifted children.
My eldest skipped 1st grade and was much happier. He is now in a 3rd grade gifted class and doing well overall. The work is not hard for him at all and he loves being challenged. However, he is not as good at listening/focusing as the older kids and gets tired quicker. Also, his fine motor skills are not as developed - this makes a big difference when trying to keep up with written activities.
My second child is also gifted - reading at fifth grade level in kindergarten. However, I would not dream of letting her skip a grade. She is not as mature or motivated and does not particularly like working! She does spend half the day in 1st grade for reading. The teacher there is great at working with kids of differing abilities and my plan is just to have my daughter spend next year with her full time.
Having gifted children is really hard work. You have to find teachers who are willing to be flexible and communicate frequently with you.
Good luck!

Tonight DS5 expressed frustration that first grade is way too easy. He seems annoyed that he's having to do kindergarten and first grade work and not learning anything from either. This makes my decision concerning the appropriate grade for next year much easier. I can't imagine not putting him second regardless of the social/maturity issues. I'm new to this, and it's strange to think a child can skip an entire grade and not be academically challenged at all. I thought a grade skip would solve his academic problem, but it's tough realizing that it may not make much difference. Since second grade has a strong focus on AR reading, I think he will benefit from that next year. I am considering enrolling him in a math online course as well so he is also challenged in math.

I would appreciate any suggestions of an online math course that would be user friendly enough he could do with little assistance at school (if one exists :-) )

I think for the younger kids and for supplemental work, Aleks.com is great for math. Not particularly expensive, they can work at their own pace, good interface, good reporting, etc.

It may be the grade he's at. We found the grade skip to be somewhat more beneficial than it sounds like your ds would but I think that was b/c dd was skipping the end of elementary to enter middle school early and there is a lot more tracking of students in middle school and a much larger pool of students to choose from (about 300 per grade) so the likelihood of dd finding intellectual peers was greater. It is unfortunate the that early elementary years can be such a waste for gifted kids.

We did actually find 2nd and 3rd grade to be much better for dd12 than was 1st but I think that part of that was dd's 2nd grade teacher who was great and didn't make her do repetitive work, AR, etc. She kind of did her own stuff. In 3rd grade she went to a really good 4th grade class for part of the day as well. Would a grade skip coupled w/ subject acceleration be an option?