Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Wisc Results Confusing

I'm confused by my 7.2 year old son who just took the WISC IV and WIAT III test. What's more confusing is the psychologists response such as "his scores are underestimate of his true ability, due to anxiety and fatigue." Following are his results. Please someone help me understand why there's such a discripency among his VCI and PRI.

VCI-102
PRI-134
WM-107
PS-132

I see the scatter, however when he took the WIAT III there was NO LD or ADD or ADHD or any other disability. Kind of weird to me.

WIAT III scores as follows:

Listening Comprehension 98
Early Reading 118
Reading Comprehension 100
Alphabet writing 87
Word Reading 116
Pseudoword Decoding 124
Oral Expression 95
Oral Reading Fluency 107
Oral Reading Accuracy 119
Oral Reading rate 104

Math Problem solving 105
Math fluency
Addition 125
subtraction 113

(he also did Multiplications which was not part of the test and not included in the testing results and actually requested division which they couldn't provide him)

In conclusion Psychologist reports:
He has average language skills in all spheres assessed. In contrast, his perceptual motor, processing, and working memory skills are all superior. Also mentions he has tics and anxiety during testing and believes the results are an underestimate of his ability.

My son hates being asked simple questions and kept ignoring the tester because he was annoyed that he would ask him questions that have no apparent value or meaning to him. Also when he was done with the test he told me step by step everything that happened in the testing room including word for word that was asked by the tester. I agree he's not articulate at all, but I wasn't very articulate as a child either, yet gifted.

Hi KsK,
I'm with Dottie that all bets are off, and I will admit that 'doesn't like to do easy things' can be classic 'smart plus ADHD' behavior

but the question in my mind becomes, how to reduce the anxiety. When does he seem happy? When does he seem more stressed? Do you think your son is 'ashamed' when people ask him to do easy jobs that are way, way below his ability level. (This was my son's case, although mine was still able to give the testing scenario a chance, since it wasn't the continual disappointment that school was.)

What is your son like as a reader? Does he have favorite books? What are they? Does he talk about them in a way that convinces you he gets them? Does he talk about them with age peers?

Does he have friends? Does he seem to enjoy them? Is he being bullied at school? Made fun of or dismissed by the teacher. I would get my butt into that classroom to observe for a few visits, for about an hour at a time, even if your work schedule is crazy - I would want to see for myself what is going on.

I'd also invite you to consider 'afterschooling' with your son as a way to get to know him as a learner. Watching him tackle challenging material is going to tell you a lot about him.

One thing we know is that he is quick-quick-quick. See how that plays out while he is learning, and compare it to what you saw in the classroom. He may not be gifted by your school's local definition, but I give you permission, based on those scores alone, to say that he is gifted in the areas of problem solving, and perhaps bottlenecked in his ability to express (or verbally absorb) ideas.

(You don't necessarily count, because he is at his best with you. Can he communicate with folks who aren't already in love with him? For an anxious kid, trust is going to be a huge issue, and for some kids it's 'I don't care what you know until I know that you care. BTW, how does he do when you are telling him about a book your read, a movie you saw or a childhood experience?)

If you can't do the 1-1 with him, I would find someone else (outside of school) to do it - I get the feeling that he really needs someone to focus on him as a learner right now.

Love and More Love (and I mean it!)
Grinity

Break down of PRI:
Raw Score and Scaled Score
Block Design : 28 - 13
Matrix Concepts 19 - 16
Matrix reasoning 21 15

I had my son tested because he's in a private advanced school, makes straight A's EASILY and tells me how easy and bored he is at school. He gets along well with other children, however, only older children. He plays by himself during his first recess which concists of only peer aged children, however, during second recess he will play with other children because the older aged children come out together.
He is so advanced in his reading at school that they actually ordered him special advanced books this year at a 4th/5th grade level and he can recall perfectly the whole even in the book he reads (more than what I can recall after hearing him read it to me)
When he brings home homework such as spelling words weekly for the first time: he has them already perfectly memorized.
He just learned two weeks ago how to multiply and divide in one day at the same time. He asked me how to do it, I gave him a multiplication graph and he memorized them right there and then turned around to ask how to divide. I showed him two problems, and the started multiplying by himself from then on.
He's so stubborn that every new school year it takes him to adjust to a new teacher for 2 1/2 months before he will listen to them. He manipulates them to see what he can or can't get away with, but once he trusts them, he's a perfect angel in class and tries hard to please them. However, we do have issues with substitute teachers that come in, because he will try his manipulating ways again.
I had complaints in art at his school and when I asked him about it, he said they only color and he hates to color. End of story there.
His handwriting is sloppy most days, however, if you tell him to slow down and write legibly, his handwriting is flawless. He just rushes through his papers like it's nothing to him.
He's obsessed with numbers, and reading, and 3Dmaps and games.
He never misses any details others might have missed.
My husband/ his father is in the military and is in Iraq at the moment. we had some anxiety issues this year due to his departure. He's honestly never opened up to people until he does trust them and usually that takes time with him. He did seem uncomfortable with the psychologist to me. My son senses others feelings to the point of himself feeling them. He has every single overexcitablility to the extreme. Even dream walking every event that happened during the day and taste and smell is too acute. He also hates loud noises and is sensitive to others reactions or emotions.
He's hilarious and loves to be a class clown which tends to get him in trouble.
His psychologist said he's confused by his results LOL which so am I.

Also when I asked him what questions the tester asked he quoted exact sentences he asked him to repeat. I made my own one up and asked him to repeat it, and he said " that's not the sentence the doctor asked me to repeat." And therefore refused to repeat it lol. He's a handful!
Hope that helps explain, anyone know what might be his problem?

That's surprising that his working memory score didn't come out higher given what you are saying about his auditory memory.

What you are saying about his advancement in math would make sense given his PRI scores since I understand that one correlates reasonably well with math aptitude. In re to the reading, it sounds like he is probably an older first grader who is reading at a 4th-5th grade level. Is that right? Kids who are not necessarily verbally gifted can certainly read a few grades above grade level, but his VCI could also be an underestimation.

His WIAT reading scores would point to a child with a great understanding of phonics (really good at decoding challenging words) but whose comprehension is fairly on par for age. Do you feel that his reading comprehension is significantly advanced as well?

Oh I forgot to mention:
My sons favorite video games are racing cars and flying plane games. In the psychologists office he had about 100 huge model airplanes on the counter where my son was tested. When I found out I knew he was distracted. I asked my son which part of the test was your favorite and in response he said, "I liked staring at all the cool airplanes ) Could he have been extremely distracted?

Dottie: I believe he was given on the original papaer extra subtests, however he did not email them to me and I am waiting for the original papers.

Cricket2:
Yes he's in first grade, just turned 7 years old. In his private school all the kids in his class are in the older spectrum because they teach advanced materials. The books he brings home are still too easy for him, and I've already told his teacher this, but she's a brand new teacher fresh out of college. This is her first year teaching and is simply going by the book for the class. (in her words going by the books, even though she knows he can read at a higher level, this has never happened at his school.)
He remembers and recalls every book he reads flawlessly. He might choose more simple words for vocabulary, however, he gets his point across.
Last year his Kindergarten teacher challenged him and he had no problems.
Really, his psychologist said the scores just don't add up to parents report and his teachers report. His teacher did mention in her report he gets straight A's, yet lacks motivation.
His psychologist told me to have him retested again later. Not sure if I want to use another 400 bucks to test him again.

Grr -
I would call and see if the test was given in the room with the model airplanes, and if so, firmly request that more testing be re-done, at no additional expense,in an undecorated room, to see if the scores will be similar. I know they can't do WISC again, but perhaps WJ -Cog and Ach would help. Given your son's anxiety and OEs, I wouldn't be suprised to see a big change.

((hugs))
Grinity

I wonder if the school would be willing to try a temporary gradeskip into the next older grade, especially since recess is better when the older kids come out to play, and gifted or not, your kid appears to have a 'photographic memory' for books and audio input.

- does that make it a 'photo-phonographic memory?'

But what books does he read at home, for fun. Does he read for fun at all?

at least 400$ is fairly cheap in terms of IQ testing...given the trust pattern, it's possible that future testing might go better. What did your son think of the tester?

I would guess that the lack of motivation is directly related to the poor fit in his current classroom.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Hi Grinity:
His psychologist did ask me if I had any questions, I said not at the moment cause I had to take in all the information at once a bit too much to take in at once for me. I will call him and ask about the distractions in his office. Thank you so much.
LOL photo-phonographic memory
I do have great memory recall (picture or sound) as well, so not too surprised that my son would as well. I had to skip a few grades in elementary as a child and did fine and also was accepted into college at 15 1/2 years of age. If I took his testing results as is to his school, I'm not too sure if they would want to skip him into second grade even though i do believe it's a better fit for him for the time being. We are however, moving to another state this coming fall and my son will once again be tested at his new school for placement. I'm nervous about himm actually doing bad rather than what he's capable of because of anxiety and stubborness. I feel as though he gets bored with questions that are easy (which seems as though he is giving up) but in reality he's annoyed that he's being asked questions he's mastered since before school. When he's given problems he hasn't mastered, he will sit there quietly figuring it out until he has mastered it fully. Never gives up until he's completely got it.
He was very colicky as a baby, talked at 5 months, walked at 8 months. spoke in sentences before age 2.
geniuses run on both sides of mine and my husbands family tree. My brothers IQ is 145, mine 138, husbands 140, and his grandfathers a math genius, my uncle has photo memory and is an electroics inventor. He goes to other countries, looks at electronic products, memorizes how it's made, comes back and makes duplicate or better never having bought the item. (my son says he wants to be an inventor). I know IQ is not a big deal since having higher IQ comes with depression or other problems and some not. My brother suffers manic depression. However, I'm mostly concerened not about how high is IQ is, but the quality of his classroom materials being done and him actually coming home telling me it's just too easy. I feel helpless with these results, and confused, and still have no idea what to do about his school atmosphere for the time being.
It's all overwhelming at times.

Yes, test was given in the room with the airplanes (seriously)

My son didn't think much of the tester. I believe my son might actually be more comfortable with women due to his dad being absent in Irq at the moment. Women tend to have a sweeter voice so he says. He couldn't stop talking mostly about the airplanes he wanted to play with during the test. When I seemed annoyed he stopped talking about the airplanes and said "you don't want to hear what I have to say about the airplanes." and wouldn't talk about the testing again until I said "I do want to hear" and listened. Then he went on about how the test went going detail by detail and word for word everytning that happened. (weird I tell you.)

Oh and yes he reads just for fun in his room randomly. Right now he's reading a book from the library (star wars) (charlottes web) and (some space encyclopedia book) and (how things work encyclopedia) I call him my book worm/nerd. He also loves legos and builds advanced legos for age 11-14 easily by himself with no help. He also memorizes scripture verses (bible) 7 verses a week 100/100 and receieved awards for it being only child in a group of 200 kids to memorize so well flawlessly and NEVER forgetting when having to recall the verses.
So knowing all this and seeing his results made my face go hmm.....