Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Help - radical acceleration with 5 yr old

I'm a bit perplexed on what to do with my 5-year-old son who has a late birthday. We're in MA - public gifted programs are not available or an option.

DS5 has been in a private, structured, gifted school as a pre-k student in a prek/k/1st grade class for 3 months. Within 4-6 weeks, he completed the kindergarten curriculum for writing and math. The next 4-6 weeks, he completed the 1st grade curriculum. A week ago the school gave my son a k/1st/2nd grade math book. Yesterday he skipped to the multiplication section and completed it easily, without my assistance, within minutes. This is the same child who has refused to do simple sums or numerals. Today, he told me that the school was too easy for him.

Teacher says pre/k/1st grade class is too easy for ds5, especially the math, but the last month ds5 has been refusing to add and subtract simple sums. He's also been uncooperative and totally resistant, at times, to doing any math or handwriting work. This slow-down began when teacher mentioning bumping him up to the next class (2nd/3rd grade).

Yesterday, principal told me 1) that he's never had a late birthday 5-year-old accelerated to the next class within a few months of enrolling; 2) doesn't know if he can accommodate him; 3) says ds5's passive-aggressive behavior is at 6/7th grade level; 4) has a hard time considering acceleration for him when he displays such passive-aggressive behavior and refuses to do any work; 5) thinks he's very bright and academically gifted but wonders if he has a hidden LD or sits somewhere on the autism spectrum because he is not verbal or sociable in class, though I find this hard to fathom as he is verbal and sociable outside of the classroom at the school; 6) says we need a full neuropsych asap, which I totally agree with and support.

I have since contacted another gifted school, which we originally considered for ds5. This school is a one-room schoolhouse situation with mixed ages until the 8th grade. It has a flexible curriculum, is more self-directed, creative, and math/science-based. They can offer ds5 a slot in the fall or earlier.

I'm strongly thinking about pulling ds5 from the structured, gifted school asap. I don't think they can accommodate my son's needs.

I strongly suspect my son's problems stem from the fact that he has a high IQ. I don't know for sure but I suspect he's EG or possible PG. I don't know, though both my mother and father had sisters with IQ 160-165 and ds5 is showing many signs of it.

Will the neuropsych give me the details to assess whether the creative, flexible school would be a better fit?

Do I pull him from the structured, gifted school and keep him home until the fall or should we consider placing ds5 in the creative school asap?

Do we forgo the gifted school entirely and homeschool instead?

Any tips on what steps to take or other advice/suggestions? Help!!!

I would go for the full testing and switch him to the other school ASAP.

And I'm falling off my chair laughing at him being gifted in passive aggressiveness. I've always felt I have a special talent in that area, too, although I was never formally identified.

I'm also laughing at the advanced presentation of passive-aggressiveness.

(FWIW, my EG/PG DD11 was dubbed "Little Ghandi" by a daycare provider when she was nine months old... she didn't "fight back" when other children were inappropriate... she simply manipulated them using their own baser impulses and left them in gaping in her wake. )

Your DS sounds to me as though his trajectory is virtually identical to my DD's-- er, or what hers WOULD have been if we'd enrolled her in a local school.

We didn't, in part because a horrified veteran teacher pulled me aside at kindergarten orientation and told me in no uncertain terms just how destructive it would be for DD.

The resistance to performing like a trained circus poodle also sounds painfully familiar. It sounds exactly like what we went through (repeatedly) when DD was...

well, we've been though it a lot. It makes any "curriculum" a potentially bad fit within weeks, days, or even hours. Once a kid at this LOG knows something, they know it, and drill and kill is like fingernails down a chalkboard to them at that point. Forcing the issue beyond that produces defiant resistance that is positively beyond description in its intensity. Pushing for compliance at that point produces globalization of the behavior, and they soon begin refusing to do anything at all.

It sounds like that is precisely what you're all seeing unfold with your son.

<SIGH> I wish I had a magic solution-- but I don't. It hasn't necessarily stopped now that she's older, and in fact, she's much more adept at avoidance and manipulation now. "Normal" curriculum with its spiraling pedagogy is just plain toxic for kids like this.


DH and I were talking about this yesterday with our DD-- this is the time of year that she always begins melting down in spectacular fashion, though often there are twinges of refusal to do work as early as late October... the thing is, radical acceleration does the trick for a while, but only until she realizes that it is STILL mostly 'review' of concepts she already knows, with a few little nuggets of new stuff embedded in the old...

In my epiphany with my DH yesterday, I made a connection to the old saw about the kids placed in rooms filled with manure-- it goes something like this:
The researcher observed that the first three subjects were crying to be left in such awful circumstances, but that the fourth child was happily using a spade and digging in the manure. When the puzzled researchers asked her why she was so pleased, she paused and elatedly announced that "With all of this manure, there's GOT to be a pony in here somewhere!!"

I observed that for my DD, this is like being led from one horse-manure-filled room to another each year (or grade skip, or class change) and initially being excited to dig and dig in order to find the pony... but now, she's deciding that there IS NO ****ED PONY, and she's tired of being told that there is. The adults telling her this have lost ALL credibility by leading her up the garden path one time too many. KWIM?


I agree with Tallulah. Run, don't walk-- get him OUT OUT OUT of there before these problems get worse. Because they most certainly will. Whether or not the other school is a long-term solution is debatable, but for now, it sounds like a good fit.



Been there, done that, got the teeshirt. It's made of hair, by the way. Very itchy.

Ha! My not-quite-three-year-old is performing at a 7th grade level in Manipulation and Insisting-on-Saving-Face!

Laughing and crying at the same time about how this dark side of asynchronous behavior strikes such a major chord. Luckily my daughters haven't exhibited (yet?) the advanced passive aggressiveness as much as I did growing up (still do?).

Thanks so much for your support and confirming what I suspected. What would we do without these forums and the Internet? I dread to think of it. Friday is DS5s last day at the structured, gifted school. I'm meeting with the heads at the creative, gifted school tomorrow, so I'll bear these comments in mind, particularly HowlerKarma's.

I nearly dropped the cell when the principal identified the passive-aggressive behavior, but I'm now laughing as well. In way it's kind of funny that the principal in a gifted school doesn't know what to do with asynchronous kids, visual-spatial learners, or EG/PG kids. As mentioned, it's also painful emotionally with these type of schools and principals.

HowlerKarma, I really, want to thank you. You've hit the nail on the head and you DD sounds familiar to what we've had at times. DS5 needs to be shown or told something only once and he's got it. He doesn't need to be drilled to death or more than once.

DS5s teacher told me today that he's likely EG/PG, but she didn't want to tell me earlier because she wasn't sure how I was going to respond or react. She noted that DS5's verbal and social differences between inside and outside the classroom.

DS5 was showing signs of giftedness since birth, but much of it was hidden by him being twice exceptional from birth. In fact, DS5 spent 4 1/2 years in various therapies (pt, ot, speech, feeding, and vision) due to fine, gross, speech, and visual delays. He spent 2 years in integrated, pre-k programs in NYC and MA; of course he hated them and but we needed the therapies and monitoring. Both programs said he was bright, meaning average-to-above average. However, we saw other signs at home that indicated he was much brighter than what these schools were saying. Naturally, too, I had many doctors and therapists tell me that they thought DS5 had ADD, debated whether he was on the autism spectrum, didn't interact with peers due to speech, etc.

I had no idea DS5 was such a visual-spatial learner or had the math/engineering gene from my mother's side until he started at the structured, gifted school. Within a few months, it's now painfully obvious and with the EG/PG. DS5 wasn't doing any math before he started the structured, gifted school. We had some results from the vision therapy before he started the structured, gifted school but these involved reading and writing - both of which were self-taught - and not any math though. I think I didn't want to accept the EG/PG then.

Howlerkarma - thanks very much for the warning with school and the meltdowns. I can easily see what could happen with an older child's meltdowns. Eh gads, it's kind of scary to me how manipulative and avoidance these type of kids can get. I've had enough of them already!<grin>.

Funny, I was about to write a similar post when I saw yours...don't want to hijack yours so will post one of my own in a little bit. Just wanted to say that I have a DS6, he was tested before school as PG and skipped K and was put in a first grade class. Last year was really tough for him. He is definitely a child who acts out when not challenged. He isn't oppositional though...just goofy. But he would scribble on some of his papers...would write his name backwards, and would do goofy things to show he was uninterested. Anyhow, this year things are much better. They aren't perfect, but much better in terms of meeting his academic needs and so behavior has improved as well. That is mostly because he is getting work that is about 3-4 grades above his level. It is amazing what a change in behavior can result with harder work. It isn't completely challenging in some aspects, but in other aspects it really is challenging. So far so good. I really like the one room schoolhouse idea, I am wishing we had one of those around here.. It would make things a lot easier. I would also suggest having him tested soon to get a better understanding of what you are looking at. It can really help with schools as well, and useful for applying to DYS in the future if you are interested. Good luck!

Oh, me too! Except we're a year behind, DS5 is in PreK and is really challenging everyone with his goofy behavior and nonsense talk so we're just starting to talk to the school about what to do next year. I will be following this and your post with interest.