Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Experiences with public vs private schools?

My daughter's K teacher said she usually has at least one reader in a class. She said it's fairly common, and it gets less difficult as they get older because the average difference decreases as more able children who couldn't read at the beginning of school learn to read and progress very rapidly and children who were coached a lot continue at a slower pace. She also said it's common to have kids decoding at a far higher level than they can understand.

Interesting because my son's private school K teacher said in 30 years, she'd never had a student enter K already reading and accused him of being a liar, in front of the whole class. The beginning of 100 reasons why we left private school.

It really truly depends entirely on the personalities involved and the school itself. I think for every story one way, you will find one the other.

For example, I read through and saw Luconu (I think) was going private to get a grade acceleration. Our private school wouldn't even remotely consider it. Public school did it in two months.

We found that the private school had an ego problem. They touted themselves as a college prep school for advance children and behaved as if every child should be lucky to attend. They wouldn't discuss anything that made them evaluate their program or even how they worked with our son. They, in their own review, were fabulous as they were.

The public school hasn't been easy but they've at least been willing to discuss. The teachers, minus one this year, realize they are undereducated about gifted kids and are willing to learn and eager to try harder for DS.

DD5 is definitely higher in word decoding than she is in comprehension. I don't have any stats on what grade level she is at with her word decoding, but I would not be surprised if she was at a 6th grade or higher. The other day she sounded out the word "exuberance" without any trouble. She does not like to try and read something if there are a lot of words on a page because she seems to psych herself out about it. DD5 is a classic perfectionist and does not like to make any mistakes. If she could get past this and gain confidence with her reading skills, I think she would test even higher in reading. We have made progress in this area in the last 3 weeks or so. She read "Julius, the Baby of the World" by Kevin Henkes all by herself (grade 3.1 according to Scholastic), and she beamed with pride at her accomplishment (before, she would not even attempt this).

Montessori schools are very expensive. If you know you can't afford, I would focus my energy on educating my daughter well in public school instead of debating the difference. Sending a child to an unaffordable school will do more harm than good. It sounds like your daughter is very bright, and she would very quickly pick up on the stress in the household due to the financial burden of her school. Also, if you send her to public school, you can use what available resources you have to send her to a camp, class, or online class to supplement her public education.

I would not worry about the public school's intial reaction that they won't advance her in reading. You have to keep in mind that many kindergarten parents are convinced that their children are much more advanced than everyone else's, and the teachers and administration aren't just going to jump at a request to grade skip a child they have never met. It sounds like your daughter is very bright, and it would be a good idea for her. However, you'll probably get better results waiting a little.

I would let her begin kindergarten without much issue. She will probably have a great time the first few weeks with the novelty of it even if she isn't learning much. During this time, I would volunteer at the school a little and get to know the teacher and principal. A few weeks into school, I would request that she be evaluated for giftedness.

Once that is complete, I would then start discussing grade skipping. You will get much better results if you've had a positive attitude and can back up your request with data such as class performance and and an IQ score. I think sometimes it's better to make short term sacrifices such as having your daughter in kindergarten a few months before skipping to gain a positive long term relationship with the public school. Remember that if your daugher is highly gifted, you will need to work with them many times. It's likely she'll need to do online learning, etc. in the future to keep learning. It's very possible to get great results from a public school education, but I think the key is to maintaining positive relationships.

i think you both are tapping into the big problem advanced readers have - there are lots of optimally gifted kids who read in kindergarten or by the end of kindergarten - who read sight words, easy readers and the like. This is why I think so many swallow the belief that they all "catch up" by third grade. but I think there is a huge LOG with kids that are comprehending much older levels. I think there is a huge difference but it might not be always obvious or even believed. With my DS 5 its apparent in his vocabulary, the thickness of the books he is reading, as well as the vocabulary of those books. But I think what is more distinctive is the use of the material - the retention and application of non fiction and fiction alike. And even with sophisticated conversations, teachers and other parents still poo-pooh it with the idea that either he is not really reading it or that everyone will be doing that soon enough, making it more of a parlor trick than an advancement requiring different material and teaching.

I don't think its very common once you take into account what they are reading. 4th and 5th grade is impressive for a kindergartener but what does that actually translate to. Some stuff at that level is not terribly sophisticated or complicated once you have mastered what is considered appropriate vocabulary for that level. AndI think that's what Tallulah's teacher was referring to the idea that you can read but not quite understand it - its what they understand and how use the material is what sets some advanced readers further apart then others IMO.

DeHe

DeHe, I'm thankful for this reply, because in my heart of hearts, I do not feel like DD5 is very typical. Then again, I'm not around other 5-year-olds to know what is "normal" for that age. I swing back and forth on a pendulum of GT Denial and GT acceptance. We have no IQ scores to set anything in stone, even though I know we don't need test scores to tell me what I already know about DD5 -- she's stinkin' smart. Then sometimes I venture on this forum to discover a group of people with infants that are solving quadratic equations, and suddenly DD5 doesn't seem so GT afterall. (Okay, infants solving quadratic equations is an exaggeration, but you get my drift.)

When her preschool started testing her in reading last fall, I wasn't surprised she was able to read the material (they started at a fairly low level), but I was impressed she was passing the comprehension part of the reading tests. Even at the 3rd grade level, she's comprehending what she is reading, and that has been a big eye opener for me in regards to her intelligence.

I will be looking for cues from the both the public and the private schools to see how they feel about DD5's reading and specifically her comprehension.

The private school meeting is tomorrow (unless DD2.5's cold turns into an ugly, feverish ear infection again)!


Hoosier Mommy

glad I could help - best thing about this site - people give you great advice and then you pay it forward. I do exactly the same thing - how smart is he - particularly after doing something ridiculous that he "should" have known better. But then not all of him is ahead - definitely asynchronous development at work here.

For me the clarity is in listening to his play - just this morning before pre-k he talked about his time machine, magic school bus, white blood cells and infection, all that was in the story he was making up - he takes all this information and synthesizes it into something new - often very sophisticated stuff and makes it play. We also had a discussion about the definition of "clarified." None of his classmates are doing anything like this - which has led to other issues, sometimes he has trouble playing with them because they have no idea what he is talking about. I would recommend in play dates or before or after pick up, listening to your DD with the other kids or listening to the other kids to get a sense of just how different your kid is. Lots of discussion on the site of optimally gifted, which means a lot of things - but at this age I think its how far separated are they from their peers alongside their willingness to tolerate the separation.

Really interesting they are testing her - is it formalized or just seeing what she can do. DS's pre-k is not terribly interested in differentiating for him although they have an idea what he can do - but nowhere near the extent.

Good luck with the meeting - and if I could offer caution - don't necessarily begin with how advanced she is - do a search here - there are a lot of nice discussions of what not to say or to couch what you want to say because for whatever reason it gets people's back's up even the hint that you think your kid needs more.

DeHe

Is Ruf's Levels of Giftedness still floating around in cyberspace? It is a good back of the envelope estimate for how gifted a kid really is and how rare kids like that really are. Bottom line is that they are pretty rare in general, but not very rare in certain populations. (Such as highly educated parents.)

My kids both fit the description - reading at a 4th or 5th grade level by the end of K and both are EG/PG.

Not that a sample of 2 is meaningful....

Mary

One thing that I've noticed is that below a certain LOG, it's easier to know as a parent just what your child's "ceiling" is at any given time.

It's beyond that level (HG+, usually) that they seem to make quantum jumps and just acquire understanding (often with complete mastery) from seemingly out of nowhere. For example, we thought that DD "knew how to read" after we'd taught her decoding skills over a period of a few weeks when she was four. Three months later, she seemed to really be enjoying Clifford easy-readers and the Berenstain Bears, Golden books, etc. Fast-forward six months, though, and she was reading Magic Tree House books at a rate of several a day. Then about that time, our copy of Harry Potter 1 disappeared off the shelf-- she was excited about Christmas, couldn't sleep and needed fresh reading material, she later explained. She was definitely really reading it, and finished the entire book in less than a week. It wasn't even another month before she started reading the articles in Smithsonian and National Geographic.

We had no way of 'tracking' what her reading level was during that period of time-- only that at four, she was "not quite" reading, and at five, she had an adult level of reading comprehension.

I've heard of children who have done this with mathematics, too-- gone from simple counting to geometry or algebra within a very short period of time without any apparent instruction.

It's almost like a step/heaviside function, or a Bessel second degree function; there's a non-linear jump from one state to the other, rather than a steady increase in ability with time.

Those kinds of 'spooky' jumps only seem to happen with some LOG, and they are apparently so characteristic of EG/PG children that they are virtually diagnostic in and of themselves.

The reason I mention it at all, though, is that schools REALLY struggle to accommodate these kids, particularly those that don't 'show off' the skills to outsiders, but prefer to apply them with little fanfare. With this sort of child, it may be a constant struggle to maintain a merely tolerable educational fit.

My DD is one of that kind, and the only way you know when she's made one of these jumps is that she'll start treating the previously-appropriate-but-now-laughably-trivial tasks with all of the fervor one normally reserves for road kill. "Appropriate" materials are a moving target. One learns in a hurry that planning even a few months ahead is at best 'tentative.'

I've been in GT denial for so long (is she really that gifted??) that my perspective is pretty out-of-whack. DD5 has been making these kinds of jumps since infancy/toddler-hood and I just considered it part of her regular behavior. She was never "early" with her infancy accomplishments, but when she did learned something, it was completely mastered. And then she'd go on to master 2 or 3 other tasks in the same week.

I've noticed this kind of behavior coming out in my other DD, just 2.5. She has a more laid-back personality than DD5 and does not possess the obsessive drive to learn or be mentally engaged at all times, but she is also doing these jumps intellectually that are surprising me all over again.

Looking at Dr. Ruf's Levels of Giftedness criteria, DD5 is easily a level 4 with some attributes in a level 5.

I hope we can find a school that can accommodate a child like this. DD5 has a bit of an authority complex (gets it honestly from her daddy.... oh, and me too), and teaching her at home is not always the easiest thing to do. It wouldn't be impossible to homeschool, but not ideal at the moment. However, I could easily see how it could become the ideal approach after unsuccessful attempts at private or public schools.

Until I began doing research in gifted children and education, I never in my wildest dreams imagined I would have a child that could be too smart to attend school. What a crazy world we live in.