Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Experiences with public vs private schools?

DD5 will be going into K next year, and we're confused about what to do with her. For two years, she's been going twice a week to a private school for preschool (that also goes up to 5th grade). I would love to send her there for K, but financially we cannot do it. The owner of the school wants to meet with me to see what we can work out because she's afraid DD5 will be overlooked and/or bored in public school K. I haven't met with her yet to see what she has to offer, but I'm surely thankful for her generosity. But then again, would public school be just fine??

Public school has changed so much since DH and I went to school (and we're not even that old!), and many of the new teaching methods I hear about leave much to be desired, IMO.

So what are your experiences with having your gifted children in public school??? I've heard a lot of bad things on these forums and I've heard some good things -- so what's the consensus?

(Obviously each school district is not alike, but I wanted to put this feeler out there.)

For background on our case, DD5 has been tested at preschool and is reading at a 3rd grade level. She completes 1st and 2nd grade math worksheets here with me when she wants to do "homework" with her older cousin. DD5 is a very self-directed learner -- we only give things to her that she wants or to keep her ever-busy mind occupied so I can get some peace!!

I talked with the public school today and we should be meeting within the next few weeks to discuss the situation. So far, they appear open to the possibility of acceleration, but they also told me that DD5 would not be pulled out of her kindergarten class for reading (she gets pulled out now in preschool). That discourages me, but then again, I'm new to all of this (and still in a bit of GT denial to boot)... I feel like a lost puppy!

These darn adult decisions!

Well, my first advice to anyone considering the merits of private school versus public is to know the legal lay of the land.



The reason is simple: private schools (mostly) aren't obliged to do anything extraordinary for children whose needs are outside the "norm" (whatever that happens to be for the private school in question).

Public schools are subject to LAWS that force them to at least address learning differences. Or to pretend that they are with a lot of meetings and paperwork, if you like. They also can't show anyone the door because of their differences, no matter how extreme-- they HAVE to provide education to everyone. Whether it is appropriate or not is, of course, a separate matter.

In the worst case scenarios, you can simply walk away from a private school-- or be told to leave-- since they may baldly refuse to accommodate differences in children. It's not against the law... and there are often political pressures on private schools to weed out kids that are "different." Consider this, if you will; a school with a reputation for "exceptional academics" isn't going to want a child that demonstrates that it isn't challenging enough, for a variety of reasons. Not the least of which is that other parents may be miffed if their own children don't seem quite as exceptional as they were hoping as a result of the comparison, if you see my point. Besides, if they'll "give extra" stuff to YOUR child... why not MINE?? I pay tuition too! (See the problem for administrators?)

Public schools, on the other hand, may also refuse to do anything special for gifted children... and in some places, they have the full backing of state law there. Or they may be obligated to make accommodations, but only go there reluctantly and incrementally, kicking and screaming through tense meeting after tense meeting, while slowly sucking every ounce of your energy as a parent-advocate, and leaching all of the joy from your everyday life for years on en--

Er-- sorry. PTSD. Bit of a Debbie Downer moment there. LOL. But seriously; it definitely pays to know how this has gone for others locally. Every school is different-- and it starts (generally) from the top down. So if you have a local administrator at the district level that is committed to one-size-must-fit-all, "all children are gifted" thinking, you're going to have trouble, no matter what the law says. In that case, looking private makes sense.

Also true (in a general sense) is that most charters (which are public schools) and private schools have higher baseline expectations, which means a better fit for gifted kids from the start. However, they may also be less flexible with respect to acceleration, and particularly with differentiation that has any possibility to look like a desirable 'perk' for your child.

ANY school can be a good one, and any school can be a bad one. It really just depends on how open-minded the people running it are and how well their "usual" way of doing things is going to match your child's needs. The less tweaking necessary, the better luck you'll have convincing educators of the wisdom of trying it.

In either case, expect to need to do advocacy from time to time.

HTH!

ETA: full disclosure here, I have spent the last decade as a volunteer parent advocate for a disability support group, so my take on this is based on those experiences and not so much on GT needs.

Our kids (oldest is in 7th grade; youngest is 6) have always gone to private schools. This is because I did a survey of local public schools, and was told by two principals that no way would they let a kid skip a grade. Well. One of them said she'd never done it but might consider discussing it after six weeks "observation."

I called the district office three times and left messages asking about policies, and no one ever returned my calls.

I called a few schools in neighboring districts and got pretty much the same response. One principal accused me of "not letting my kid be a kid" even though I'd only asked "What's your acceleration policy? My 2nd grader seems to need a grade skip."

This was all in the Bay area of California. YMMV. The best thing is to call or write and ask, and make sure you get specific answers to specific questions.

That said, the eldest will be going to a charter next year because his current school is moving out of our commuting range. The charter ran an algebra class in 7th grade this year (1st year in this city, but many campuses around the state), so they won't be too far behind my son (starting geometry). They do the Math Olympiad, too.

From what we've seen/learned, private schools can go either way. Test scores are important, but there're no NCLB threats, no legally mandated standards, and no unions. The lack of these things can allow flexibility. In California, the school day at a private school is typically an hour longer than at a public school. This gives time for music, science, PE, and random stuff that doesn't get as much coverage in public schools here.

I know of one chain of private schools around here with a policy of anti-acceleration ("At xx, we believe that all children have gifts"). There are also a few schools claiming to aim at cognitively gifted kids; most of these schools seem to allow acceleration. One major prep school will send 6th graders to the high school for math or English or whatever. Another school doesn't use the word "gifted," but all the materials for the second graders are third grade materials, etc. etc. through every grade up to 8th.

The charter school people didn't react in the least when they saw that a ten-year-old was applying for 8th grade. That was nice.

My big points:

1. Because of NCLB, public schools MUST focus on low achievers. If they don't, they can end up in a world of trouble. This idea is a major philosophical driver.

2. A major driver at private schools is tuition. You are a customer. This means that private schools must, within reason and at least in part, address what the customers want.

3. Private schools often have a philosophical mission that underlies how they approach education. This can be a big help to a parent with a need that's addressed by the school's mission.

HTH,

Val

Thanks for the responses.

The private school we're looking at is a Montessori-like school, and stresses the fact that each child is different. They have no problem accelerating material for one child while not for another -- that's actually part of their mission statement. So I have no worries that the private school won't meet my child's needs academically. Even with DD5 being in just preschool, they're already supplementing her reading (she reads one-on-one with a teacher each school day). Our public school I called said they would not pull her out of class for reading, which really discourages me. She's at a 3rd grade reading level, but she'd be "learning" what the rest of her kindergarten class would be learning. However, this was not definitive since we have not met with the principal and other school representatives yet.

The guidance counselor at the public school said a couple of things to me that sent up some red flags. First, she made a comment about possible acceleration, but added something about not accelerating so that DD5 would always be the top of her class (insinuating that this may be good for her). This rubbed me the wrong way immediately, and I got the feeling that the guidance counselor doesn't really get it. She also said that although DD5 wouldn't be pulled out of class for reading, she could do other things, like read a book to the class. I don't want DD5 just being teacher's helper, I want her to learn... geez. But in all fairness, this was the first phone call to the school and only involved the guidance counselor, not the principal or any teachers. Our state laws mandate that a gifted child must be accommodated, however I'm sure that can be interpreted loosely.

The private school is GREAT -- their philosophy is perfect for DD5. The school is very small, only a few years old. Class sizes are very small and include two grades with one teacher (mixed-age). DD5 is already working with the Kindergarten/1st grade teacher with reading. But the private school cost money. And I became a SAHM last year after I got laid off from my job in the medical field.

Oh, the fun begins . .. .

My son has gone to both public and private schools.
I say - go observe any classroom you think about putting your child in.

There are 3 basic issues I see -
1) Your daughter's 'readiness to learn' level is several grades higher than her agemates at the public school. If the school is willing, for example, to have her attend 3rd grade full time, then you don't have to worry about her not being pulled out for reading. If on the other hand, this particular school has a bunch of 1st graders reading at 3rd grade level, and she's full time in 1st grade - also fine.
2) pace - even if your daughter's readiness to learn level matches other kids in whatever public school classroom that put her in, one has to be prepared for this big leaps forward in readiness level, and willing to keep moving when things the mismatch gets to be too much.
3) self-directed learning - my son isn't consistiently a self-directed learner of academic subjects. Oh, occasionally he'll get interested in a topic and devour the wikipedia entries and any related tutorials he can find, but for the most part, he has well learned the lesson of traditional classrooms: It's good to sit and be bored while your classmates catch up. You can't expect to be learning something all the time. You have to balance your need for material at your learning level with the whole classroom's need for learning material at the majority learning level.

It isn't that every private school uses Montessori-style expectations that each child is a self-directed learner. It also isn't that every child will take advantage of this expectation. But I do sometimes wonder how different my son would be in this area if he had been in a Montessori-style classroom from the preschool years.

And it's possible that my son gained some important life experience by being 'part of a classroom' - who knows? Still, I wouldn't do it knowingly again.

Good luck! I feel confident that if you spend some seat time inside the public school classrooms of different grades, you will have what you need to know.

Love and More Love,
Grinty

From my experience with Montessori (which was great) I would suggest that if you do go this route you look out for a couple of things:

1) Repetition:
It's great to be able to go at your own pace, but watch out for the amount of material needed that your child needs to "churn" through before they can go to the next subject. Gifted kids generally need less repetition.

2) Maxing out the classroom/school:
It can happen quickly! Make sure they have materials available that stretch a few years beyond the last grade of the school. Then there is always the transition to worry about....later....

DS7 goes to public school. It is in public school that his need for a grade skip was recognized IMMEDIATELY. Our county's public schools aren't the best in the state. Our state's schools aren't even close to the best in the country, but they did recognize his need for more. Sure there are issues, but I don't think ANY situation is going to be perfect for every little thing. You need to make a list of what is most important to you and your child's education and see what option meets those on top of that list best.

Both of my DC are going to be attending a charter school starting in the fall. The change wasn't because the school we are zoned for is a bad one, but that this school is a better fit for our DC.

My son (DS 10, 5th) was in private school from Kinder to 1st grade. He's been in a parent-participation K-8 public charter school since 2nd grade.

None of the schools that our son attended has GATE program, hence no gifted testing. We were also oblivious to the gifted issue and only last year were 'introduced' to this. Our son has since been tested and we've been advocating for him.

Although the school doesn't offer GATE program, they do differentiate through ability grouping. We have Math Mix-up in Kinder/1st grade, 2nd/3rd, and 4th/5th. However, since math is not done at the same time across grade level, there can be tricky scheduling issues when a child needs to move up above their combo class level. It becomes even trickier when elementary students need to move up to middle school math.

That being said, our son was pretty lucky since he got an excellent teacher in 2/3 grade (it's a combo class, and the kids stay with the same teacher for 2 yrs). He was able to do 3rd grade math in 2nd grade. When he couldn't go to 4th grade math because of scheduling issue, she continued to challenge him in her own classroom.

Our daughter's teacher (DD6 - not tested) is amazing, too. She grouped her students (K/1 combo class) based on their ability in reading, writing, and math. She has some of them working on 2nd grade reading and math. At the other end, she also has kids who are still learning their letters and numbers. She has no trouble working with one of her students who loves chemistry and has started learning about Periodic Table before entering Kinder.

On the other hand, our son's math class this year was not a good one. The teacher has no idea how to differentiate. I've talked to him directly, and even talked to the principal many times. In the end, we decided to pull him out, and he's now working independently. I teach him at home and I sometimes come to school, too, during math time. It helps that we had the SCAT and WISC-IV test results when we talked to the principal. He's also been supportive and found a middle school teacher to mentor our son in science.

The next challenge will be when our son gets to middle school next year. We've started the conversation with the principal, middle school math specialist, and home teacher about math progression. Our local public high school's principal is against math acceleration. There is a fear of 'holes' in their math abilities and of course, "We're running of math class to offer!"

In dealing with public school, knowing the laws certainly helps. You can also make stronger case when armed with results of some formal assessments. Gathering information and learning about gifted issues (esp. from the amazing board!) help us understand our children better and thus advocating for our children more effectively.

When it comes to private schools, it would be most helpful to get their stand on giftedness. I've visited supposedly highly academic private schools that are very inflexible. On the other hand, I know at least 3 private schools in the area that get giftedness and make accommodations.

Val, we live in Bay Area, too. I'm curious where this charter school that you're planning to send your child to. Would you mind sharing that info? Thanks!

Both of mine were in a similar situation. I worked at a private school, which allowed both of my children to go there for free. DD4 was in a pre-k program for 3year olds, and DS7 was in kindergarten. This year we moved to another state. Here we have no private schools, and the pre-k programs are, quite honestly, a joke. DS7 was put into the gifted program, but still bored to tears. The problem with public schools is that, partly due to No Child Left Behind, they are forced to cater to those kids who are struggling, often at the expense of those who are not. Private schools don't have to do that. Cruel as it sounds, if someone in a private school can't keep up, either their parents get them a tutor, or they go back to public schools. Now, with that having been said, if you get a good teacher in a public school, it helps a lot. DS7's teacher has done everything she can (within the limits of the given curriculum) to challenge him. But I still supplement at home and keep a notebook in his backpack full of extra stuff for him to do.
So in short, I firmly believe that any child can get a good education at any school - but sometimes it takes a heck of a lot of work on the part of the parents.

Ok. Let me confess I have not read all responses - got you G though :-) sage wisdom as always.

You cannot make a blanket comparison of public to private. There are some public schools I would pay to get into - those with self contained gt programs. There are some that allow real and meaningful single subject, and whole grade acceleration. There are some so knee-capped by NCLB and finances that they cannot withstand the demands of a gifted child. But what options do you have - in many cases private is not better. This is one of those socio-economic equalizers. Where we will even the most expensive private school does not serve gifted better than public (except for small classrooms and fancy facilities).

The question to review with your family is what options are available and sustainable. Within the options, what can they provide to meet the academic and social needs of a gifted child? Grinity is right on. Observe. Administrators at private and public toss the word differentiation around like candy - and in both cases it is often meaningless.

I'd want my kid to have the option that gets them time apart with like-minded kids, challenge (but more than challenge at that age - the absence of pure, boring, repetition)... It is unfortunate that you have to pause and wonder - is my kid too smart for our schools.

As everyone has said, the answer to the public vs private question varies greatly depending on the schools. We live in a very highly rated public school district that is great for the middle of the bell curve. My kids are in private but it is a private school for the gifted (PK-12) so they definately "get it".

We live in a great public school district, but to be honest, I have severe skepticism about the quality of any public school since the NCLB racket started. DH and I had boredom in school many many years ago when teachers taught to the middle and middle-upper students of a class. What is DD5 going to do sitting in class with a teacher teaching to the lower-end of the class? I was a people-pleasing kind of child, but I think even I would have had behavioral problems in school if I had to sit through that kind of teaching. And DD5 is a high-energy, active child whose mind NEVER stops -- although she is extremely mindful of rules and manners, I fear she will become terribly disruptive in a classroom that does not allow her to advance at her own pace.

DH and I had no advocacy as children regarding our education, so we feel very strongly about all of this in a way our parents do not understand. I'm so glad this forum is here!

I agree with others that the public versus private issue varies greatly by location. Your child's personality and level of giftedness also makes a difference. For example, there are several excellent private schools if you live in the Twin Cities metropolitan area, but if you have a kid who is an outlier among gifted, they don't have the best reputation. There are also several different types of public schools that work well with different types of gifted kids: regular gifted magnets, STEM schools, classical academies, arts magnets, and HG schools. Even among HG schools, there are differences. Some are more flexible than others.

For your particular situation, I'd recommend digging deeper than the guidance counselor. Is there a gifted teacher/coordinator for the district? That is where we started in our small city (we are not really in the greater twin cities area!) She helped us tremendously, before DS started kindergarten. We had some private IQ scores in hand, to help convince the school that our child would need something different. When we asked the gifted coordinator for advice, she arranged meetings with the principal and counselors at the school. It helped that our school district did not have an official gifted policy, even though the regular gifted programming didn't start until third grade, because they were receptive to our suggestions and ideas. The principal hand-picked a great kindergarten teacher who was good at differentiation. The teacher did a good job differentiating with reading, and the gifted coordinator ended up teaching higher math to DS. The next year we successfully advocated for a grade skip. Even though we ended up switching DS to an HG school when an opening came up, we were at a point at our local school where we felt that they got our DS and were able to differentiate for him. What was missing was same-age intellectual peers and a faster pace of instruction. That said, if the opportunity did not come up at the HG school, we would have been pretty happy at our local public, because they were willing to be quite flexible.

This is the reason my DH and I started our advocacy. We had rotten memories of sitting in class for years, bored to death, until college. We were pleasantly surprised that things are quite different from when we were kids! I think my biggest recommendation is to get on the good side of the principal so that he/she can recommend a teacher who is good at differentiation and who wants to have a kid in class like your DD.

I'll be sure to kiss up to the principal when we meet in the future!!!

We have had a struggle with our local public school district. They are one of the type that simply don't believe that acceleration is good for anyone, and never accelerate before third grade. Private school, here we come.

I called the local public school gifted coordinator when my son was 5 to ask about accomodations in kindergarten for a highly gifted child who was reading on 4th grade level.

I was told that I should start him on medication because, in their experience, ALL GIFTED KIDS ARE ADHD.

Needless to say, my kids did not go to the local public school.

The local private school for "average and above average students" has an average class size of 12 and has worked well for us.

I also have a friend with a gifted 2nd grade boy who has had a horrible time in school. She recently pulled him out (mid-year) and moved him from public school with a class size of 35 to private school with a class size of 14. He now loves school and is motivated to learn.

I guess I would say this means you should look at private schools as an option.

However, my most generic advice is this: make the best choice you can given the options you have available. Always look for other options and don't be afraid to make a new choice next week/month/year if there is a change in your options or the information that feeds into your decision. Sometimes the best choice today wasn't an option a year ago.

Good luck-
Mary

My in-laws ran into the K teacher that taught their children... geez... 30 years ago now. They were talking with her and happened to tell her about my DD5 to seek her opinion (can DD5 reading at a 3rd grade level successfully be in K?). The K teacher said she once had a child who read at a 5th grade level and it was challenging to have him in class.

This led me to ask the question, how common is it for a 5-year-old to read grade-levels ahead?? DD5 just turned 5 in January, and with her rapid acceleration, I could see her reading at a 4th or 5th grade level by the time K starts this fall. The K teacher had been teaching A LONG time and only had one child that was gifted like that (and this is in a district with a lot of highly-educated professionals).

How common is this??? Is DD5 possibly EG or PG????

I know this could not be definitively answered without IQ testing, but what your experiences with this???

I think it's not all that rare, at least among children from highly educated families. FWIW, I was told by a parent of a child there that our local state primary school had enough children who were "reading Harry Potter" on starting school that they had a reading group of them. Perhaps 4 or 5 children out of an intake of 60 or so, aged 4.5-5.5? (DS was AFAIK the only one like that at his school, though, out of 30-odd; parents at his (private) school are on average significantly richer but perhaps less educated - I think the reason this anecdote has stuck in my head is because it's contrary to the usual assumptions here about state vs private school pupils :-)

My daughter's K teacher said she usually has at least one reader in a class. She said it's fairly common, and it gets less difficult as they get older because the average difference decreases as more able children who couldn't read at the beginning of school learn to read and progress very rapidly and children who were coached a lot continue at a slower pace. She also said it's common to have kids decoding at a far higher level than they can understand.

Interesting because my son's private school K teacher said in 30 years, she'd never had a student enter K already reading and accused him of being a liar, in front of the whole class. The beginning of 100 reasons why we left private school.

It really truly depends entirely on the personalities involved and the school itself. I think for every story one way, you will find one the other.

For example, I read through and saw Luconu (I think) was going private to get a grade acceleration. Our private school wouldn't even remotely consider it. Public school did it in two months.

We found that the private school had an ego problem. They touted themselves as a college prep school for advance children and behaved as if every child should be lucky to attend. They wouldn't discuss anything that made them evaluate their program or even how they worked with our son. They, in their own review, were fabulous as they were.

The public school hasn't been easy but they've at least been willing to discuss. The teachers, minus one this year, realize they are undereducated about gifted kids and are willing to learn and eager to try harder for DS.

DD5 is definitely higher in word decoding than she is in comprehension. I don't have any stats on what grade level she is at with her word decoding, but I would not be surprised if she was at a 6th grade or higher. The other day she sounded out the word "exuberance" without any trouble. She does not like to try and read something if there are a lot of words on a page because she seems to psych herself out about it. DD5 is a classic perfectionist and does not like to make any mistakes. If she could get past this and gain confidence with her reading skills, I think she would test even higher in reading. We have made progress in this area in the last 3 weeks or so. She read "Julius, the Baby of the World" by Kevin Henkes all by herself (grade 3.1 according to Scholastic), and she beamed with pride at her accomplishment (before, she would not even attempt this).

Montessori schools are very expensive. If you know you can't afford, I would focus my energy on educating my daughter well in public school instead of debating the difference. Sending a child to an unaffordable school will do more harm than good. It sounds like your daughter is very bright, and she would very quickly pick up on the stress in the household due to the financial burden of her school. Also, if you send her to public school, you can use what available resources you have to send her to a camp, class, or online class to supplement her public education.

I would not worry about the public school's intial reaction that they won't advance her in reading. You have to keep in mind that many kindergarten parents are convinced that their children are much more advanced than everyone else's, and the teachers and administration aren't just going to jump at a request to grade skip a child they have never met. It sounds like your daughter is very bright, and it would be a good idea for her. However, you'll probably get better results waiting a little.

I would let her begin kindergarten without much issue. She will probably have a great time the first few weeks with the novelty of it even if she isn't learning much. During this time, I would volunteer at the school a little and get to know the teacher and principal. A few weeks into school, I would request that she be evaluated for giftedness.

Once that is complete, I would then start discussing grade skipping. You will get much better results if you've had a positive attitude and can back up your request with data such as class performance and and an IQ score. I think sometimes it's better to make short term sacrifices such as having your daughter in kindergarten a few months before skipping to gain a positive long term relationship with the public school. Remember that if your daugher is highly gifted, you will need to work with them many times. It's likely she'll need to do online learning, etc. in the future to keep learning. It's very possible to get great results from a public school education, but I think the key is to maintaining positive relationships.

i think you both are tapping into the big problem advanced readers have - there are lots of optimally gifted kids who read in kindergarten or by the end of kindergarten - who read sight words, easy readers and the like. This is why I think so many swallow the belief that they all "catch up" by third grade. but I think there is a huge LOG with kids that are comprehending much older levels. I think there is a huge difference but it might not be always obvious or even believed. With my DS 5 its apparent in his vocabulary, the thickness of the books he is reading, as well as the vocabulary of those books. But I think what is more distinctive is the use of the material - the retention and application of non fiction and fiction alike. And even with sophisticated conversations, teachers and other parents still poo-pooh it with the idea that either he is not really reading it or that everyone will be doing that soon enough, making it more of a parlor trick than an advancement requiring different material and teaching.

I don't think its very common once you take into account what they are reading. 4th and 5th grade is impressive for a kindergartener but what does that actually translate to. Some stuff at that level is not terribly sophisticated or complicated once you have mastered what is considered appropriate vocabulary for that level. AndI think that's what Tallulah's teacher was referring to the idea that you can read but not quite understand it - its what they understand and how use the material is what sets some advanced readers further apart then others IMO.

DeHe

DeHe, I'm thankful for this reply, because in my heart of hearts, I do not feel like DD5 is very typical. Then again, I'm not around other 5-year-olds to know what is "normal" for that age. I swing back and forth on a pendulum of GT Denial and GT acceptance. We have no IQ scores to set anything in stone, even though I know we don't need test scores to tell me what I already know about DD5 -- she's stinkin' smart. Then sometimes I venture on this forum to discover a group of people with infants that are solving quadratic equations, and suddenly DD5 doesn't seem so GT afterall. (Okay, infants solving quadratic equations is an exaggeration, but you get my drift.)

When her preschool started testing her in reading last fall, I wasn't surprised she was able to read the material (they started at a fairly low level), but I was impressed she was passing the comprehension part of the reading tests. Even at the 3rd grade level, she's comprehending what she is reading, and that has been a big eye opener for me in regards to her intelligence.

I will be looking for cues from the both the public and the private schools to see how they feel about DD5's reading and specifically her comprehension.

The private school meeting is tomorrow (unless DD2.5's cold turns into an ugly, feverish ear infection again)!


Hoosier Mommy

glad I could help - best thing about this site - people give you great advice and then you pay it forward. I do exactly the same thing - how smart is he - particularly after doing something ridiculous that he "should" have known better. But then not all of him is ahead - definitely asynchronous development at work here.

For me the clarity is in listening to his play - just this morning before pre-k he talked about his time machine, magic school bus, white blood cells and infection, all that was in the story he was making up - he takes all this information and synthesizes it into something new - often very sophisticated stuff and makes it play. We also had a discussion about the definition of "clarified." None of his classmates are doing anything like this - which has led to other issues, sometimes he has trouble playing with them because they have no idea what he is talking about. I would recommend in play dates or before or after pick up, listening to your DD with the other kids or listening to the other kids to get a sense of just how different your kid is. Lots of discussion on the site of optimally gifted, which means a lot of things - but at this age I think its how far separated are they from their peers alongside their willingness to tolerate the separation.

Really interesting they are testing her - is it formalized or just seeing what she can do. DS's pre-k is not terribly interested in differentiating for him although they have an idea what he can do - but nowhere near the extent.

Good luck with the meeting - and if I could offer caution - don't necessarily begin with how advanced she is - do a search here - there are a lot of nice discussions of what not to say or to couch what you want to say because for whatever reason it gets people's back's up even the hint that you think your kid needs more.

DeHe

Is Ruf's Levels of Giftedness still floating around in cyberspace? It is a good back of the envelope estimate for how gifted a kid really is and how rare kids like that really are. Bottom line is that they are pretty rare in general, but not very rare in certain populations. (Such as highly educated parents.)

My kids both fit the description - reading at a 4th or 5th grade level by the end of K and both are EG/PG.

Not that a sample of 2 is meaningful....

Mary

One thing that I've noticed is that below a certain LOG, it's easier to know as a parent just what your child's "ceiling" is at any given time.

It's beyond that level (HG+, usually) that they seem to make quantum jumps and just acquire understanding (often with complete mastery) from seemingly out of nowhere. For example, we thought that DD "knew how to read" after we'd taught her decoding skills over a period of a few weeks when she was four. Three months later, she seemed to really be enjoying Clifford easy-readers and the Berenstain Bears, Golden books, etc. Fast-forward six months, though, and she was reading Magic Tree House books at a rate of several a day. Then about that time, our copy of Harry Potter 1 disappeared off the shelf-- she was excited about Christmas, couldn't sleep and needed fresh reading material, she later explained. She was definitely really reading it, and finished the entire book in less than a week. It wasn't even another month before she started reading the articles in Smithsonian and National Geographic.

We had no way of 'tracking' what her reading level was during that period of time-- only that at four, she was "not quite" reading, and at five, she had an adult level of reading comprehension.

I've heard of children who have done this with mathematics, too-- gone from simple counting to geometry or algebra within a very short period of time without any apparent instruction.

It's almost like a step/heaviside function, or a Bessel second degree function; there's a non-linear jump from one state to the other, rather than a steady increase in ability with time.

Those kinds of 'spooky' jumps only seem to happen with some LOG, and they are apparently so characteristic of EG/PG children that they are virtually diagnostic in and of themselves.

The reason I mention it at all, though, is that schools REALLY struggle to accommodate these kids, particularly those that don't 'show off' the skills to outsiders, but prefer to apply them with little fanfare. With this sort of child, it may be a constant struggle to maintain a merely tolerable educational fit.

My DD is one of that kind, and the only way you know when she's made one of these jumps is that she'll start treating the previously-appropriate-but-now-laughably-trivial tasks with all of the fervor one normally reserves for road kill. "Appropriate" materials are a moving target. One learns in a hurry that planning even a few months ahead is at best 'tentative.'

I've been in GT denial for so long (is she really that gifted??) that my perspective is pretty out-of-whack. DD5 has been making these kinds of jumps since infancy/toddler-hood and I just considered it part of her regular behavior. She was never "early" with her infancy accomplishments, but when she did learned something, it was completely mastered. And then she'd go on to master 2 or 3 other tasks in the same week.

I've noticed this kind of behavior coming out in my other DD, just 2.5. She has a more laid-back personality than DD5 and does not possess the obsessive drive to learn or be mentally engaged at all times, but she is also doing these jumps intellectually that are surprising me all over again.

Looking at Dr. Ruf's Levels of Giftedness criteria, DD5 is easily a level 4 with some attributes in a level 5.

I hope we can find a school that can accommodate a child like this. DD5 has a bit of an authority complex (gets it honestly from her daddy.... oh, and me too), and teaching her at home is not always the easiest thing to do. It wouldn't be impossible to homeschool, but not ideal at the moment. However, I could easily see how it could become the ideal approach after unsuccessful attempts at private or public schools.

Until I began doing research in gifted children and education, I never in my wildest dreams imagined I would have a child that could be too smart to attend school. What a crazy world we live in.

Oh my goodness, I love your description of these seemingly random leaps in understanding/capabilities. They seem to come out of nowhere, and there's often no predicting what will spark them or what area they'll occur in. My husband and I will just look at each other and shake our heads.

"Spooky" jumps--perfect!

Personally, I find that they are useful in a secondary or tangential manner, as well:

it's an easy differentiator for determining which teachers are truly well-educated and genuinely interested in gifted children, too.

The ones that are the real deal tend to get very excited by reports of kids like this, and are pleased to get to work with a real example of something that they may only have 'read about' or 'heard about' in their training.

Of course, some of them can lose sight of the fact that this is a real child we're talking about-- not a laboratory animal.

Homeschooling this kind of gifted child is a CRAZY-hard challenge, (I can't begin to tell how many different workbooks and curricular packages we used 5% of before they were worse than useless) but it does make me appreciate the difficulty of appropriate accommodations from the school's perspective, which has led me to be a much more patient advocate than I might otherwise have proven.

I also strongly suspect that this sort of child has a tendency more than any other to be mislabeled as ODD, ADD, or some other pathology by frazzled educators.

Holy cow!!!! I have to come on here to express my total jubilation with the meeting we had with the private school yesterday.

It's a small school with only 30 students in K-5th grade (and 45 pre-K kids), so DD5's K/1st class would have just 10 students. They are completely on par with DD's abilities and are easily willing to advance her at her own rate. Each student gets an IEP (this happens there at pre-K, too, so I'm familiar with all of this already with them)... so she'd technically be in K next year, but they anticipate teaching her alongside the 1st graders (it's a mixed-age class with K and 1st being together). Then the following year, they said they'll probably skip 1st grade and bump her up to 2nd. They have other gifted children there as well, but they said DD5 is definitely the most gifted they have seen. They're very excited to have someone like her at their school.

I knew the private school near us was the answer to my child's education, but the tuition was holding me back. The principal/owner of the school offered us a full-ride scholarship for DD5. However, DH and I took another look at our budget and feel confident we can swing half the tuition. I told the owner I did not want to take away the scholarship from someone who needed it more than us (and we may very well need it once DD2.5 is ready for K there as well).

I canceled my meeting with the public school set for Friday. I don't think they could offer anything me anything that would compare to what we'll get at the private school. The public school has already said some things to me that have sent up red flags and have shown a lack of cooperation. Maybe I'm being misguided for not checking out the public school, but DH and I don't even want to go down that road if we can help it (DH spent his entire school career in this district, and I spent 6 years in it, so we both know what the district is like).

Anyway... yippy skippy to DD5!!
And the generosity of the private school is well worth commending.

Yippee! That is excellent news. So amazing that they can SEE your child, and what a big deal that is!
Smiles,
Grinity

Awesome!

You might want to get the accommodations in writing before you sign anything. Hopefully the administrator you met with will send you a follow up letter with everything in there.

This school sounds a lot like where my dd went to k - while it lasted, it was the best!

I plan on riding this train until the track ends!

Oh, this is WONDERFUL news! Thanks so much for sharing-- your joy absolutely radiates from your post above.


Good, good vibes!

Awesome! I have heard good stories from some people with kids in Montesori. (Some bad ones too - but the good ones were really really good.)

Not trying to be a wet blanket.... but sometimes what works one year doesn't work the next. Do consider testing to see if your child could get in the Young Scholars program.

I would have been lost without my family consultant when Snoopy was younger.....

Mary

HoosierMommy,

Wow! It appears like you hit the jackpot! I hope the school works out for you and your daughter.