Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy What to do about conferences

I've been laying low a bit lately as we've kinda hit a stalemate with DS7 and school. With conferences coming up next week, though, I'm wondering what to do.

So, DS7 is in 2nd grade with an acceleration to 3rd grade math, and is young for grade after having skipped K. 3rd grade math has been perfect for him. He is actually ready for 3rd grade work across the board (reads at a 5th-6th grade level, top spelling group is way too easy, writes well, etc.) and, according to his 3rd grade teacher, he's very mature and well behaved.

We have tried to talk to his teachers about his mismatch with the spelling curriculum and the math RTI curriculum (which he does daily in 2nd grade) in particular, and have mentioned his much higher reading level at home than what they see at school. They acknowledge that spelling is very easy for him, but say he's in the top group as if that should be enough. I started having DS7 take in some of the chapter books he's reading at home and they immediately noticed and "tested" him to see if he could read it and understand it, and I'm guessing were quite surprised since he said he did well and they left him alone after that. But our discussions with them about trying to get him in a more appropriate RTI math group was the straw that seems to have broken the camel's back.

While the school had always worked well with us with all the other accelerations (his sister is accelerated as well), our talking to his 2nd grade and 3rd grade teachers requesting something more difficult than single-digit addition and subtraction and now regrouping prompted a call to us from the principal. He said that they had received similar requests from about 10 other parents from his RTI math group but that they were "how do I word this, suprised" that we would have a problem since DS was already receiving math acceleration and that that was the accommodation. They did agree to start a Continental Math League just for these kids and I have been starting to see some improvement in the RTI work coming home.

So my question is, since I'm getting some hostility now and definitely lack of concern from his 2nd grade teacher (his 3rd grade teacher has actually been great) and since we don't really want him to skip another grade, do we go into the conference keeping our mouths mostly shut and just trying to get through the rest of the year, or do we continue to rankle them and let them know that DS is still not being challenged? Do I just continue to do the enriching activities I've been doing at home and stop asking them to make his hours at school a better match where he is? Is this the point that we suck it up and realize that school academics may never be a great fit?

Thanks for reading my always-lengthy posts and TIA for your opinions and help!

So I'm confused. Is 3rd grade math a good fit or is it single digit addition - I don't really know what RIT is, so maybe that is what is confusing me.

And...sad to sound like a broken record - if the 3rd grade teacher is great, and interested in keeping you child challenged, and the work is a good fit, why would you settle for keeping him in 2nd with a teacher who doesn't care?

Not that there aren't really good reasons to avoid another skip, there are - but what are yours? And are they really worth accepting that his schooltime will be an actual waste?

My son has been both accelerated and decelerated during is academic career, both have been wonderful, needed and have had tradeoffs. That's my bias.

love and more love,
Grinity

RTI should be working to move him from his current level upward. A true RTI is only meant for at risk kids in specific areas. For kids at or above grade level it should be for enrichment or working to maintain at present levels. Students should not be consistantly working on skills already mastered It is mostly intended to serve kids who are lacking in skill areas and not performing to grade level benchmarks. It sounds like they have just grouped the higher performing kids and are not assessing their individual needs( as they do for low performing students) and then measuring progress. I would go to the conference and ask to see the assessments done in the RTI group and then the updated assessment showing growth. I would ask why he is in an RTI group to begin with and what is the philosophy they are following.
This will not make you more like but will put them on notice that you are aware of RTI expectations. You may even want to contact the parents who may also be raising issues. This could be an opportunity for small group or individual projects.

In our school, RTI (Response to Intervention) groups take kids from each of the regular classrooms (generally four per grade level)and place them in leveled groups (generally six per grade level) with the intent of teaching kids at their level for about 30 minutes each day. RTI groups are in addition to the regular grade-level math instruction that happens every day -- enrichment, if you will. The original intent of RTI is to "remediate" students working below grade-level, but here it is used to attempt to enrich at every level. I think assignments to the various groups are based on MAP scores primarily, with some judgement by the teachers based on what they see in class.

When we decided to send DS7 to 3rd grade math this year, we were assured that, while he would need to be in a 2nd grade RTI group because of scheduling conflicts, they would undoubtedly be able to teach him at his level, if not with others near his level, then on his own. That is why, when we saw him coming home with worksheets and talking about activities focused on single-digit addition and subtraction, putting double-digit numbers in numerical order, counting coins, telling time in 5 minute increments, etc. that we felt we needed to say something to the teacher. We chose to speak with his main 2nd grade teacher (he also has his 3rd grade math teacher, his RTI teacher, and a different 2nd grade reading teacher because of scheduling issues) and he actually just didn't respond to us. He did, though, talk to the RTI teacher and the 3rd grade math teacher, both of whom, he said, said that DS needed to work on his facts fluency. We were told that he needed to get three 100%s on one-time-a-week 5-minute 100-problem addition tests, then get three 100%s on subtraction tests before he could move on to multiplication. They said that they couldn't offer him more challenging RTI work because that is where the other kids in his RTI group were. After a month more of inappropriate work my DH spoke to each of the teachers separately and while the 3rd grade teacher said he needed to be given harder work and should be working on multiplication, the other teachers said he was where he needed to be (and I subsequently talked to his math teacher and got her same version). It got reported to the principal, apparently, that all the teachers agreed that he was good where he was.

Anyway, we feel like another skip isn't ideal, although it's really just more of a gut feeling. He has an end-of-November birthday with a September 1 cut-off and so is young-for-grade. Most of his best class friends were 8 before school started or very shortly thereafter and IRL most of his friends are quite a bit older than him. He is actually one of the very tallest 2nd graders, so size isn't an issue. Maturity isn't an issue, as his 3rd grade teacher says she's very impressed by his ability to come and go on his own with no reminders, to deal with three different teachers, and to get right down to work. He has friends in his 3rd grade class. And, like I said, he could easily handle all the 3rd grade material. The main concerns, I guess, is that he speaks unclearly (he can actually say all of the sounds but tends to speak carelessly) and that he has already skipped a grade. His sister actually is younger for grade than DS is, but she also has a higher LOG based on testing thus far, and she's a very mature girl. A double-standard, I know. Interestingly, when we approached the school about accelerating our DD for math, they looked at her reading scores and insisted she be accelerated for reading, too. When we approached the school about accelerating DS for math, he had even higher reading scores but they only wanted him accelerated for math.

Hope that helps to answer some of your questions. Can you tell I'm frustrated and feeling like I'm between a rock and a hard place?!

I think a kid that age only needs one math teacher at a time. I think you have the right to be frustrated.

Thanks, Chrys.

I'm just wondering if we're stuck because full-grade acceleration is off the table (and I doubt the school would be on board with that) and they seem unwilling to change anything this year. If so, I'm wondering if we should just bite our tongues at the conference.

Any suggestions for other things to try?

Haven't been there yet. Sounds difficult. From reading and natural inclination it seems you might take a step forward if you go in asking for help. Say, what can we do with this kid? The enrichment isn't doing much of anything for him. Not what can you do for us. What do you suggest we do for him? Of course stay flexible and play it by ear. Good luck. Nobody gets mad when u ask for help, only when you have ideas. Of course if it looks like they won't get mad maybe recommend geoboards or tanagrams. They're fun and supposedly add understanding. Is that right? I'm not sure. I just wanted to try to help. That's all I could of think of off the top of my head since all the parents are asking for more and the kids are tired of rehashing the same old same old and you're trying to make a move and further your relationship with the school. Just trying to think of something you could ask for that's not a skip, won't step on toes, and still helps the kids.

If your son has difficulty with processing than 100% on a timed test may be unreasonable. As an experiment have them try the timed test with mulltiplication facts. For my DS9 his teacher is having him do logic squares instead. He loves them. The key is engagement.

Actually, he doesn't have problems with timed tests. The only reason he hasn't passed them all yet (he has one more subtraction test to go) is that with the holidays and other activities going on at school, they have skipped several weeks of taking them. He knows all his facts and when I have him practice them at home a few days a week, he always gets 100% correct. In fact, the only two subtraction tests (at the beginning) that he didn't get 100% on, he got 97% and 99%. So, clearly he has them mastered. They are just a road block to him getting the multiplication tests at school.

Golly - I would think hard about the full grade acceleration option - on the face of it, lack of clear speech just doesn't seem like such a big deal to me, but my hunch is that there is more swirling around in your momma-gut. Try get get yourself a chance to air out every strange doubt you have regarding this, because you are seeing how bad a fit 2nd grade truly is if the best Math group is so far below him. Also you are seeing how difficult it is to manage the 'reality factors' of subject acceleration. So with all that frustration, I know that there is quite a bit swirling around in there. Remember that you can always decelerate later if that seems like a good idea. We did and DS14 is thrilled to be the 'most organized of the boys' and 'most mature of the boys' in his current grade placement.

If a full skip isn't on the table, the next question is, after that last subtraction test will the work become appropriate? If yes, then ok to smile and nod. If no, then not ok to give up and clam up.

Hugs and More hugs,
Grinity