Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Gifted, Inquisitive, Derailed: CC to Career? -Rev.

Hi, I'm a young adult (just turned 21), identified as gifted between ages 9-10 and also dx'd with Asperger's, who as a young kid, always said I wanted to be a theoretical physicist, which at age 14 transformed into my announcement to the science class that I wanted to study theoretical particle physics. I also had undx'd migraines that started getting treated at age 18, as well as asthma that went unrecognized for some time (that one I suspected since I was seven, when a classmate had it and I thought I should get checked out - I'm not sure the extent to which I got evaluated, but I do know a nurse at college measured my peak flow at rest and said she thought it unlikely). I never had any kind of acceleration, but I did attend a GATE class from grades 4 through 8 (in the subjects of drama, visual arts, chess, book club, and marine science). For high school, I transferred to an arts charter school where I could specialize in studying the art of creative writing (I also dabbled in film towards the end of my senior year).

Unfortunately, while the school was excellent when it came to arts instruction, the dramatic reduction of bullying, and the fact that I met more intellectual thinkers, the academics were very unchallenging (though it's a good school academically in general, just that until you get to AP classes, there were few options for acceleration), and so after my freshman year of school, it was hard mainly due to missing so much time due to prolonged sinus infections, breathing problems, chest pains, and headaches, which were long assumed to be either exaggerations or my way to get out of doing boring schoolwork I didn't want to bother to do like I did in elementary school or in junior high when physical safety was at risk due to bullying, but medical tests finally showed that I do in fact have GERD, asthma, and migraines, which are all on the road to being controlled.

I had grown up getting 100%'s on nearly everything, then 99%'s, when I put effort into it, so the idea of getting much less than that when the grades matter for college struck me as massive failure and a reason to punish myself. I knew it was a wild exaggeration of the proportions of the situation, but that is how I reacted, on a nervous level, initially.

But I started to focus more on socialization and taking care of my health (I've always missed weeks or months at a time since elementary school, attributed to either psychological issues such as school avoidance or the prolonged sinus infections and breathing troubles and headaches, which there had been more of during elementary school) instead of concentrating on school, which, much like my first grade days, I viewed increasingly as a total joke.

I don't know, the high school went to reasonable measures to accelerate me, but by then, the damage had mostly already been done, I mean, AP Calculus AB is hardly going to hold my attention when I had already studied calculus four to six years earlier and by then I was already onto undergrad number theory and abstract algebra.


...Tl;dr I had poor attendance and little motivation to do well in school throughout my young life (I figured I wouldn't get into a good college anyway, because of all the absences and our lack of money, and I just gave up prematurely on the idea of college, even though I still fantasized about it - I really wanted to go to math camp; I forget why I never sent out an application - I think it's because I kept getting those four-month long sinus infections really bad, and I ended up forgetting to give the problems to my mom to send in time), becoming especially noticeable at the crucial moment, because I was disillusioned and young. Now I am slightly older, and willing to go back into the system for a rewarding, if stressful, career.

Although, one thing to keep in mind is that even though I put in little effort to keeping up my grades or activities during high school, I did go to school from 8-5 and then straight to CC classes from 6-10 four days out of the week for about a year, managing like a 3.5 GPA that year or something (I don't have the transcript on hand. It wasn't that demanding, though, and I put most of my effort into my personal math, film, foreing languages, writing, music, literary projects, etc. - I've always been something of a multi-tasker).

The original issue that prompted this post is that when senior year rolled around, I applied to a school (or possibly two) I did not particularly see myself attending, and ended up dropping out due to health issues, roommate noise adversely affecting my health, and a change in career and academic plans (this school did not offer a music program where I could pursue composition and theory at even a basic level).

So the only track I have left to higher-education is a community college, but there are a few things I'd like to know that perhaps some people here have the ability to clarify:

When a college adcom evaluates an applicant, I mean, I know they know there are intelligent people who attend community colleges. However, I do know that community college courses are generally very easy (how much easier than: average state school versus average private school versus average Ivy League school, I have no idea, and I've only listened in on a state school course, unless you count MIT OpenCourseWare.

But since my intended careers (since I would rather apply my skills, even though my primary ability and passion is in math, rather do something directly applicable to the world than purely theoretical for personal satisfaction in addition to academic satisfaction as opposed to strictly academic satisfaction, as I'd like to do aerospace engineering or become a medical doctor (mathematics professor is a top choice but fewer direct applications). Frankly, if job opportunities and such weren't a concern, I could major in almost anything from chemistry to classics, thoroughly enjoying the experience, and if there were enough time in my mortal lifespan I would probably major in most subjects the average university offers, and get a master's or Ph.D in a greatly reduced yet still sizeable subset of that.

At the local community college, within a year I could take about two courses from local universities in addition to the community colleve. Ideally, I would transfer after a year or a year and a half (I might need a little bit of time just to establish that I can keep doing the work consistently, since I dropped out of the four-year school, and the medical withdrawal is only noted for the first year).

The thing is something of a catch-22, unless I'm missing something about the process - I want to take very rigorous courses to demonstrate my ability to handle difficult college coursework (consistently), but I've heard that medical schools don't like seeing the pre-med courses from community colleges. I would not mind re-taking it at the transfer institution if that were an issue. It can be very different at this level, and even if I had self-taught at the rigor of the re-taken courses and thus everything was a re-hash, oh well, that's life. I'm used to worse things now than re-taking courses. There should be better ways, but right now any way out (of poverty, mold, and cyclic cynicism) is a good one.

Also, any transfer recommendations? What schools are good for gifted, inquisitive, derailed young people who aspire to professional goals? The kind of school I am interested in is the kind where the emphasis is on solving difficult, complex problems, less of a "busywork" mentality - that doesn't mean I'm not open to doing long papers, by the way, and obviously I'll still encounter "busywork" whatever school I go to - I just want to minimize the amount, and find a school where I am, preferably, around students of a similar mind. My writing is, as you've probably already noted, of a logorrheic nature (I was the fourth-grader suggesting a 50-page thesis - my reassurance of "Don't worry, I only want it for me, not for everyone! just bewildered them - they thought I was suggesting it as a punishment for everyone, a punishment few could handle? Typing helps, I said, but that didn't go over well either, sure enough!)

I don't know what to ask in terms of advice getting to this dream school (as well as to safeties and that middle, comfort zone school (I forget the usual term applied here, darn med can't wait until the neuro switches me), though if anyone did have anything besides the obvious (get excellent grades, participate in a meaningful way, engage professors, have something tangible to show for outside pursuits, etc.) then I would welcome that as well.

I wish that it was a little more open and forgiving for people who are bright and (newly) motivated, as the real world can quickly motivate people even in less than ideal circumstances, or perhaps it is and it is just difficult to tell because so many people apply to transfer? It isn't like my HS grades were terrible for the norm, just compared to what I could do (GPA is deceiving though - I had about a B average GPA from a good school, but it was very uneven, all averaging to a pretty good GPA but with some bumps that would make someone question just how consistently I could achieve that.

My test scores are pretty uneven too, primarily since I viewed multiple-choice tests like that as fun breaks like the state testing that didn't really matter, but also because of the uncontrolled migraines (I did well on some SATS and poorly on others - great on my history AP even though history is my worst subject and terrible on my math and science APs, despite doing well in those classes before I had to quit to make up my D in non-AP U.S. History - which didn't work; I wasn't motivated before quitting my favorite APs and I wasn't motivated after) - Oh and my SAT was 750 CR 680 M 620 WR. I took it at the usual age. I took it twice, buying a test prep book after the first test results came in - after all, I didn't want to look like the jerk who isn't worried at all about the SAT while everyone else is studying, even if my reasons were a little different than having a good score.

Once these health problems are better controlled though, and I will have disciplined myself through self-study and then the community college courses, I don't see it as too great an impediment to my goals, just need some time to get used to living in colder weather and things like that, so everyday life runs smoothly first before tackling more things.

So any ideas on these issues are apppreciated. Thanks!

::I've spared you some of the details. Not all, but some. Usually I don't write such wordy posts, except when it's late and I'm very tired, writing in a meandering, droning sort of speech.

Welcome - but honestly, tl;dr. I think you'll get better responses if you write (in addition - just stick it in this thread) a 250 word summary. Writing concisely is an essential skill for a vast number of worthwhile careers, in any case.

Hi, Well....I read it, mostly.
Welcome!!
I don't completely relate, because I was probably not quite as smart as you, and not so completely derailed. But most gifted adults on this forum (mostly parents) have some very interesting/disappointing educational system stories to relate. Heap that with health issues-denied and I can definitely seeing this messing someone up.
It is great to hear you are cutting through all the crap and getting back to business. Congratulations!

My dh is in fact a similar case, way out of line for the schools he was in, potential-wise. His educators and parents did place him in a full time gifted school for high school, but by then, as you say, the 'damage was done'. He did get some social awkwardness relief there, however, but he remains not so well placed in his career, fairly cynical and unable to relate to many of his "colleagues" who don't seem to be able to do any part of their jobs correctly. At least he had managed the almighty college degree first time out (though it took 8 years!)

Anyway, as to what sort of college to look for, if you mean community college, I am not sure there is much distinction from one to another. I suppose if you are willing to move, you would almost certainly do better in a community which supports art, science and intellectualism in general. Some of those places will be more expensive to live, of course, but it might do you good to get in a move.
My dh was able to get some of his classes paid for at the university we both attended by taking a janitorial position at the college. They allowed a certain number of credits for free to any full time employee.

As for what to study, and I know you didn't ask about that, you might want to reconsider whether giving up the pure math/science end of things is for you, that is of course a decision which will be much easier as you get further into your studies.

As to a transfer, sounds like you need to look for the most hard core math/science oriented school you can consider possible.

You don't mention sat or gre tests-- don't want your scores, but curious if you do well, super-well or 'meh' on these sorts of tests. This might make a big difference in your choice of transfer colleges. Proof of potential, as it were.

Hi Shift,
Welcome. So glad you posted.
I have a few questions.
1) You originally wanted to be a theoretical physicist, then later you talk about wanting to go to medical school. What changed, and why? Are you interested in being a clinical physician or research?
2) You mention AS. What kind of support team have you built locally? What kind of personal growth have you seen along the lines of 'living in an NT' world?
3) Do you have any mentors? Professors at CC? Medical Doctors? It sounds like whoever 'sorted you out' medically is probably a great doctor - is she or he willing to act as your Mentor as well?
4) Where - exactly - are you on your path? Are you attending CC now?

Bottom line, based on what I've got so far:

Read 'What color is your parachute?' Do the steps - get to know yourself. I don't care how much money you make - I want you to be happy and contribute to the world! Also read "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" if you haven't already.

Do some journalling (here or at home) about what your current interests are.
Find some 'real world' application that you can do as a hobby while you are getting your credentials so you can get Mentors. If you still love theoretical physics - read papers and send emails to the authors asking questions about their work and about if they have any 'summer internships' available. Keep building relationships with these folks even if they can't help you materially right away.

If you aim for Theoretical Physics or Math, you can always switch to Medicine, which is less competitive, because you'll have a great background academically. Of course the problem with Clinical Medicine is that it's a bit of a meat grinder, and one needs strong empathy skill and strong physical, sensory, and emotional constitution and a few other things that are completely unrelated to IQ - remember that the training is based on a military model. My guess is that you'd contribute more to the world as your own slice of steak than ground beef, but I've just met you, so take me with a grain of salt.

Smiles and Hugs and Pockets of love,
Grinity

I'll summarize for you.

I'm the classic gifted underachiever, but now I've decided to get my ass in gear and work towards either aerospace engineering or medicine. Trouble is, I can only start with community college and I need to learn good study habits. What do you advise in terms of colleges and in terms of getting into a good school.

I don't know anything about getting into med school, but I think you want to first decide whether engineering or medicine are your preferred option. In terms of learning how to study and applying yourself, I found that once I was motivated by the end goal and more mature (about 25) I could buckle down and ace everything, despite never being able to manage homework before.

Good luck!

Do some self-reflection, Grinity and others have given you very good advice. As encouragement I can tell you that it is possible to go from cc to grad school. I am right now a doctoral student, who progressed from cc to a private university with low admissions criteria, to a regional university to get my master�s degree and now I am at the tier one university getting my Ph.D. In addition, I am an immigrant, so in many ways that made it harder for me to navigate the education system in the U.S. Just wanted to assure you that cc should not be seen as an obstacle.

Thanks MagnaSky - that is great to know! Nothing like living proof to be an inspiration!

I definitely agree with the need to do some self-reflection/journal writing to figure out what you want to do. Finding mentors also helped me decide on a career (well, careers, I guess). It was much easier to focus on school (even the boring, easy stuff) once I had a roadmap of what I needed to do to succeed.

As for graduate/medical school, it is still possible to get into these schools after attending community college (currently working on both degrees after going that route). Good grades and high GRE/MCAT scores are essential, though, as well as good relationships with some of your professors/research mentors.

This is just a final thought, but, with a love of applied mathematics and a desire to be a doctor, have you considered MD/PhD programs for medical research? There is a newer field called biomathematics, which focuses on applying mathematics to medical phenomena, and is an area of research for some medical researchers. I've found it to be a good compromise between helping people/society and doing something that taps into my interest in mathematics...

There is absolutely NO reason at all why starting out at community college will stop you from achieving a four year degree and being admitted to graduate or professional school. The only way that is going to happen is if you hold on to negative feelings about yourself that get in the way of being successful. Most people who attend medical school in this country did not graduate from Ivy League colleges. They graduated from state schools.

You don't mention if there are financial considerations. If so, you may want to investigate the possibility of transfer scholarships from your cc to universities in your state. Often cc students are eligible for really good scholarships. Capable students like you can get really far as a result.

My suggestion would be to take advantage of the counseling and advising resources available to you. If you are currently attending community college go to the advising center and ask about resources for transfer students. Next, I would encourage you to set up an appointment with admissions at your local state university or other colleges. Tell them you are at community college and planning a transfer in a year and would like to find out how to be best prepared. I would suggest this even if these are not the exact schools you plan to attend because it will give you ideas what to work on. Also, it may be worth knowing at many state universities you may not need SAT scores or they will be given minimal importance if you are applying as a transfer.

As far as your catch 22, you could work on some of your general education requirements while at cc. I would at least save bio and bio labs for your four year college. There should be plenty of requirements to keep you busy for a year at cc especially if you have the option to start taking university courses as well.

Finally, and feel free to ignore this, but as a totally unsolicited piece of advice I'm wondering if you've ever investigated the possibility of gluten sensitivity. I mention that because I know someone with the exact combination of conditions you mentioned who struggled for years only to find undiagnosed gluten sensitivity at the core of the problems. I just thought that was worth mentioning.

I do really well on practice test of the GRE, though - then again, when I took a practice SAT before taking the PSAT, I got an 800 in math, 760 in critical reading, and 740 in writing, considerably higher than my actual scores on the SAT, so practice tests are usually overestimations in my case, and probably generally (I took them in a comfortable chair in soft, natural light, holding them up at an angle with a book instead of leaning over...strictly timed doesn't mean the testing conditions are remotely approximated).

Anyone know of good hard-core math/science schools that are perhaps lesser known (or a bit easier to get into) than MIT, Caltech, the usual suspects? Those were my dream schools I kissed goodbye to in high school.

When it comes to tests, I do have something of a performance anxiety (I also did with music for awhile...I trained myself to process my emotions differently, considering the propranolol made me sicker at even low doses, one of the things that prompted me to consult a doctor and get checked out, leading to the asthma dx). Even when I'm not relaxed I tend to do well, but I do much better when I have controlled the cycles of negative thoughts.


Grinity:

1) A part of me would like to be a theoretical physicist, but my interest is much more in pure maths. I could see myself teaching math (I wanted to do that since I was little, too) and doing research, but my number one hobby is medicine (not that I practice it! :P) My idea of a good weekend is to read from Harrison's Principles of Internal Medicine. I have considered careers in medical research, but I am much more interested in the clinical side of things, patient interaction with all the frustrating and horrifying things that can come of that. Haven't picked a specialty yet, but that would be a bit unwise, though I do have some favorites.

2) I'm not sure that I really understand this question. I mean, I understand what you're getting at, but I'm not sure how it really applies to me. I remember in school they used to have a kid escort me to new places, which confused me since the first day I went to the new school in first grade when we moved there, I made a map in my head and told my dad that should I have gotten separated from him, I could have easily found my way home. Then I remembered that when I had gotten separated from the groups in elementary school, when they eventually found me at some other part of campus (peering in through the window to watch the sixth grade math lecture on the overhead projecter), I told them I had gotten lost. But that's a tangent. I just moved here, so I haven't really had the opportunity to make friends or establish any kinds of relationships yet. Once I get my inhaler (which I am without right now) I can go out and meet some new people. I can't move, but this community college should be as good as any other. It's what I do here and after I'm done here that really matters, makes the statement.

I'm going to start CC next fall, to make sure I have time to sort my health first (and save up some money).

I would definitely prefer medicine or mathematics professor (actually, I would ideally like to teach more advanced math to younger students who are ready and eager (or at least, willing)... perhaps I can find such an opportunity if I go the math route) first...then if that fell through, something in video game design/programming, electronics, or something.

^^
So you think it's a good idea to hold off on the biology sequence (beyond General at least) until the 4-year school? I planned to do a full *intro* physics sequence (the calculus-based one), as well as do math through at least undergrad abstract algebra. God, I loved that in high school. I was so depressed for a couple years I just sat staring at the walls, until I realized I had a bunch of books around me. Then it still took over a year to gain motivation to pick something up and read, but music helps. Oh, and while the barium swallow showed no abnormalities save for GERD, the doctor did say that if I continued having trouble with dysphagia, to get an endoscopy. That should detect an underlying disorder the upper GI series didn't if I have one, whether Celiac or Eosinophilic Esophagitis or something else. Since I do have a prior diagnosis of IBS (which I chalked up to dietary and exercise habits, as my dad has a "sensitive" digestive system, and I seem to have inherited everything he has and added a couple of things), it's a good idea to follow up on the endoscopy, even though things are probably normal apart from the reflux.