Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Should I be working with DS on WM and PS?

As a former writing teacher, I'm thrilled that your son is learning to write drafts now! Brainstorming, prewriting, key ideas, revision...all things I had to slave away to teach 19yo college students. If it helps, feel free to tell your son that I said they're all mandatory for the good writing of anything, and that he's going to be way ahead of the curve on that score if he learns it now!


Actually it's all very helpful! I appreciate your sharing with me. The competition with me is something I'll consider working up to. Though I'm not sure he'd be all that into it yet, he might get there if I'm patient, and it's a good tool to have in the old toolbox. It is possible that it may just be a personality thing instead of an age thing though. Our DS6 is not generally a very competitive kid. There are exceptions, but I'd say he's usually more self-motivated than competitive, so I don't know if competition will work for him.

The Aleks pie pieces are another sort of reward, limited and esoteric though they might be, so it's pretty clear to me that I'll want to do something of that nature. Helpful!

Did you do any math drill when your DS was younger? I'm still musing about when is the "right" time to press the issue...

The writing issue sounds challenging. I don't think we adults usually think about how much is involved in getting thoughts down on paper. Typing first and writing second is brilliant! Did you come up with that? What a good idea.

Happily, our DS6 so far shows no such issues. He's a natural speller and his handwriting isn't bad, I don't think. (Though I confess that I'm pretty lenient about such things compared to the elementary teacher he had who marked every tiny slip over or under a line... If it's close and he practices regularly, I'm usually not too nitpicky about it.)

The drum lessons sound very brave of you! How is that going?

Anyway, thanks for sharing! I really appreciate it!

Change the "DD10" to "DS6" and this is our story exactly, kcab! Right down to his coming home with uncompleted work.

Food for thought. Thanks!

Good thoughts kcab, that is how our son has been most of his school career also but for writing assignments instead of math.

Kriston,
Thanks for the support on how we are approaching the writing issues. I feel like a terrible Mom when I make him do things 2 or 3 times to get what I consider an acceptable report. (or at least something that the school can't use against us...) DS is a great speller when it is the only thing he is trying to do. In fact he is doing well in the spelling bee at school right now. It is only when he is composing and writing it that it gets a bit off kilter.

At age 5-6ish, I think he was really into mentally doing these types of problems as we drove places in the car.

5+7+12+15 = x (Up to 6 or 7 addens I think)
12-8+7+6-2 = x

how many 6s are in 36

150+25-75 = x

He loved amy problem that included a letter so we also did alot of

6x - 10 = 26 wit hbot hpositive and negative answers

Also in the car we did times tables up to 12. Once he was good at reciting them in order, we started mixing it up. Of course for every question he answered, he got to ask us one too... Almost like making him do double work since he had to decide if we gave him the right answer.

Drill though did not really start until this year. I think the idea of using a calculator or spreadsheet for simple computation to work on concepts is a really good idea The tables sound good also. I might have DS draw them up as well. Maybe use them to play a type of bingo game...

Oh, and surprisingly, the drum lessons are going very well. The set is huge and takes up about 20% of the living room right now. looking for a loft bed for his room... But, he really likes it and places alot of really interesting patterns and beats without being obnoxious. I can see the math skills at work actually, seeing him try to figure out how he can fit 7 differnt tones into different rhythyms

elh - a drum set!? You are such a nice parent! How fun.

My DS also brought home almost every worksheet he saw in class last year in kindergarten. And for us, it was more writing than math also. He was much more advanced in math than in reading before kindergarten. Now that is totally reversed. Some how, some way we'll get him in accelerated in math next year. Homeschool or otherwise.

I too would suggest car rides. Does he like to spell? You can ask a few spelling questions, then a few math questions, then a few spelling questions ... Let him to ask you questions as well.

elh0706 DS5 likes the same kind of problems. Dinner time seems to be his favorite time. 3x + 10 = 5x, 1/9*x = 17 and such seem to be his favorite ones.

Hmmm, math facts on car rides could be a problem. His favorite thing in the world (besides Transformers, of course) is to play "the last letter game," where we take turns naming a word that starts with the last letter of the word before. So "aardvark" leads to "kleptomaniac" leads to "cavort." And so on.

It's virtually the only concerted vocabulary and spelling work I do with him, he loves it, and we play it nearly every time we're in the car. I don't think he'd take kindly to subbing in math facts for the game...

I'll see what I can do, but I'm betting we'd have better luck during school time on this one with our particular child. I'll see if I can think of a way to work it into the car without complaint though. Thanks!

Hi Kriston,
I don't know a lot about the IQ discrepancies, but I work in special ed. I know that, in my state scoring "too high" on IQ testing should not disqualify a child from receiving services. At first, I thought having an IEP wouldn't really matter in your situation because of the HSing, but if the school situation is changing, it may help IF you feel there is a need for an MFE. Our school psychologist explained to me that the biggest factor in determining a need for special ed. svcs. is - does the disability interfere with the child's learning.

He may not even need a formal evaluation if he's being HS and going to a GT school. You are more than capable of meeting his needs at home and the school is probably used to having children with varying abilities in different subjects and willing to accommodate his needs without an IEP.

Thanks for responding, therah.

I know that having some high scores alone wouldn't disqualify him from needing an IEP, but if all his scores--IQ and achievement--are at least average/at grade level, he wouldn't need an IEP, would he? If not from his scores, how else does one tell that a child needs an IEP? (Pardon my stupid questions!)

I mean, DS6's lowest score on the IQ test was the 109 on Processing Speed. That's not indicative of a problem on its face--it's an average score. Perfectly acceptable. However, the fact that his processing speed is 42 points below his Perceptual Reasoning score might seem to be a problem! That "bottleneck," as Grinity so aptly called it, seems like it's going to cause him the very problems I'm seeing.

I don't know if it translates this way (and I certainly mean no disrespect to those with diagnosed LDs--I'm just trying to figure this out...), but it seems like a child with a 100 on the PRI and a 58 on the PS would be severely handicapped and very frustrated. Seeing that scenario mirrored at these higher numbers now makes me think that my DS is having similar sorts of problems.

Is it an official disability though? I'm guessing not, unless there's more to it than the WISC scores, something else that I haven't ID'd.

I guess I'm wondering what to ask the GT school for, what to say to the teacher about him for next year. This year isn't such a problem, since he's already got a "virtual-IEP" thanks to HSing, and I now am aware of what the problem is and I have some tools to handle it. But next year, when he's getting his math from them instead of from me...Hmmm...

Am I making too much of this?

There are research articles saying HG/PG kids brains develop differently than ND kids. Evidently ND kids reach maturity (full thickness) of cortex at about age 7-8, whereas HG/PG continue to develop until age 11. Although I'm probably butchering the findings and am too lazy to look it up right now, what this has meant to me is that our kids have a bigger window of discovery that is important to nurture. Their IQs can indeed change during this period. DS's best friend had an IQ jump of 15 points from age 7-8 to 10.

My DS 6 is 4th child and I have not worked with him much (old, tired face). But I do see that his processing speed improves as he gets older. His teacher plays "around the world" where she holds up a math problem and the one who solves it first wins and can keep winning if no one solves subsequent problems faster. This has helped him with math facts, but I don't know how to do it in HS setting. Having a classmate who is advanced encourages him to advance. They are working out of Comprehensive Curriculum books, some ALEKS, and now a 4th grade Houghton-Mifflin Math book.