Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Piano lesson complaining - LONG

PTP-
I did force him to get up and bowl. I wouldn't let him quit, wouldn't listen to his crying. I think you may have this idea that I yell at him like some drill sergeant. Forcing to me is "I won't let you quit on yourself, so when you stop crying we'll try again."

My parents very much "forced" me to learn. I was required to participate in one athletic activity outside of school (activity of my choice) and practice one musical instrument (instrument of my choice.) My great-grandmother was a cotton-picker in Mississippi and got married at 13. My grandparents were mill workers and prison guards and both of my parents essentially raised their siblings. This wasn't in any way their choice. My mother and her sister are not close now, because she had to be the bad guy growing up. My father moved out at 16 and went to college early, got drafted and went to the military- another thing that he didn't choose to do and certainly didn't inspire lifelong learning.

I believe this is more of a cultural shift than a generational shift. Countries that are outpacing us in science and math have longer school days and years, compulsory tutoring, intense lessons and focus on education. Sadly, I think our cultural shift has gone in a direction that leads to entitlement, lack of sense of responsibility, blaming others for lack of success and an overall sense of on-demand information.

I think you may have missed that my son actually enjoys his gymnastics class except for when it's difficult. He is happy in class, wants to go and never complains about getting in the car. It is only the moments when it gets difficult that he wants to quit.

As for detox- an unrealistic request in my family. My father is a web designer and computer server manager. My brother is a coder and video game designer. My husband is a hard core gamer who also lives with his iPhone everywhere he goes and is on call 24/7 for work. I grew up assembling and disassembling computers for money, we had internet in my home in 1990. We are a serious tech family.

Wow - this thread really has grown. I have 2 very lazy gifted kids with monitored access to technology too. They are also homeschooled so they have lots of free time. I think there is a huge difference between a kid hating an activity at it's core and enjoying the pay offs, but struggling with the work. It is our jobs as parents to sort these things on based on our own kids. My son now at age 10 is just coming around to the idea of effort = pay offs. And I definitely see music lessons helping in this regard. I took 7 years of music lessons growing up, and I felt like it was the only thing I did that allowed me to excel at my own level and really drilled home some lessons for me about work ethic. Does that justify a parent "forcing" a child to do something that they hate every second of? No. There is quite a bit of gray area between an entirely self motivated child and a child that is completely forced and hates an activity. Some kids need ongoing encouragement and help to feel successful.

I also don't see greater value in music lessons than drama, fine art, etc. Because we homeschool, we try do some of all of that. My kids picked their own instruments - granted at age 4 and 5. But I think that ownership in the choice definitely helped. After the first 1-2 years and some sense of mastery, practice is infinitely easier and more fun than getting over that initial hump. My kids also wouldn't do or try anything if I buckled at the first sign of resistance. Music has become a joy for all of us. And if I thought my kids really hated lessons at their core, I would let them quit if they asked (they never have asked to quit - they have asked to skip practice plenty though!)

Anyway, I feel a bit sorry for the OP of this thread.

My dd10 is in a robotics team. During competition season they work upwards of 20-25 hrs a week. Sometimes 8-10 hours straight. The kids, however, don't see this as work. When it is time to go, they don't want to. I think this is what an extra-curricular activity should be like. It should be hard work, challenging, but also bring them joy and not feel like a punishment. There are so many things that can provide challenge and teach perseverance, why not let them choose how they learn those lessons?

I was thinking the same thing. There's starting to be so many themes entwined here. I was trying to sort out the main one's.
Child-led Pro's vs. Cons. & other options
Scheduling Decisions/time management/choice
Arts-core curriculum or Extra-cirricular?
Encouragement/pushing, pro's & con's and the line.
Oh yeah, of course methods of piano instruction


Then I realized the conversation's happening here, now. Live. I told myself "quit trying to organize other people's comments into categories". LoL at talking to myself.

Yup. This is getting to be quite a long thread. Um-huh.

I vote kimck
Comment pg. 8

Can we vote our favorite comments up to the top here like yahoo?

intparent, I think we agree that a child who truly loathes something should be allowed to quit, perhaps our only disagreement is when that child may quit. I would ask the child to give the activity some time in order to see if he truly hates it or the effort.

However, I disagree that asking that of a child is being mean. A parent can be mean and cruel to a child in any number of ways that have absolutely nothing to do with forcing a child to stick with lessons and activities for some period. Even though I expect him to practice, I am not mean to my child (unless you ask him, of course, since I made him quit playing the Wii after 40 minutes today).

I also concede that I have personal issues in this area that likely influence my thoughts. I was allowed to quit every activity I ever participated in as a child. Ballet, tap, gymnastics, academic decathalon, tennis- you name it. Notice no music in that list? My mother was forced to take a particular instrument for many years despite the fact that she hated it, and she swung the opposite direction and let us quit at the slightest resistance.

I am trying to work on a balance in this issue, and I think that Jane is as well. If she weren't concerned, she would never have asked the question and faced her doubts/concerns. She would have just told her son to keep playing piano without hesitation.


And yes, I am generalizing. Most statements on this thread that do not pertain to the poster's own children are generalizations, though. I can only speak from my own experience, but I have noticed a lack of follow through with many. Is that due to not being forced to continue taking swimming lessons when they were 5? I highly doubt it. But it just might be caused by them being allowed to quit swimming at 5, ballet at 7, piano at 10, karate at 11, glee club at 16... I think you get the point.


Obviously this is a complicated issue, and one that many of us are concerned with. All we can do is try our best, have an open dialogue with our children and provide them with the support and unconditional love they need. But of course that's always easier said than done!

I think that's awesome. But I would also say, you have a pretty self motivated child. My 10 year old would absolutely LOVE to be on a robotics team. He plays with robotics for fun. If I told him the team was a 20 hour a week commitment he would say forget it. If for the first month, I provided support, encouragement, snacks and told him to just hang in there for 4-6 weeks, he would most likely get over the hump and grow to love it. And if he didn't, I'd let him quit.

I just think every kid is different and every parent needs to know their own kids strengths and weaknesses.

Wow! What an intensely passionate and interesting thread! I am so impressed by all of you with your passion and instincts about raising your own unique kids and what is best for them. I feel like somehow I didn't get that gene tells you firmly what to do for your child to ensure the best outcome. I just muddled through the best I could with no real sense of certainty that I was making the right decisions or using the right reasoning.

Reading this thread though really emphasizes to me how different kids are and how many different approaches may be effective. I really think the most important thing is that we make sure our kids know how much we love them for the unique person that they are, not what they do or accomplish.

As for digital detox, I tried it once or twice (perhaps too late) with very negative consequences. I was unaware at the time that my DD had a lifeline of online friends from around the globe that got her when no one in her school did. What a dilemma raising a highly gifted kid can be, you never know (at least I don't) when they are manipulating you or really honestly telling you what they need to survive.

I have to say, I really don't think longer school days are the simple answer for everyone: my DD could learn in 20 minutes what her school taught in a day, and I think the compulsory 8 hours of boredom has stifled her lust for learning. Maybe structuring the lower grades more like college - where kids could test into the class of their ability level for each subject regardless of age would help us be more competitive globally?

Kimck- thank you so much for this. I think you would parent my DS very well! If I didn't provide support, encouragement, snacks and deliver him to the lesson/practice/meeting with a positive attitude from me, he'd never do much of anything! But we've gotten over many humps in trying new things by this method.

JaneSmith/OP:

So... I've enjoyed the extended therapy session(s) with Lucy Van Pelt(s), and will probably undergo some intense self-scrutiny later tonight.

But in the mean time, assuming you wish to maintain the mantle of evil ogre/overlord, here are some other things that made practice slightly more bearable in our home for child and parent alike:

1. Skip some nights of practice

2. Try a couple shorter sessions twice in the same day

3. Take an extended break (Been discussed, I know...)

4. Try different practice routines (focus on scales/improv one night, songs on the other).

5. Spend one or more lessons with the teacher learning how to practice. Sounds silly, but this was actually a great reinforcement for both of us!

6. Buy/rent/borrow an electronic keyboard -- the more bells & whistles the merrier.

7. Turn a practice into a jam session. If you can't play the right hand yourself, have HIM teach YOU and then play together. Or have him teach you a chord progression to play while he improvises.

8. Spend a whole practice playing as fast as he possibly can, while still maintaining some small resemblance to the original piece.

--------

Don't recall if you've already discussed this with the teacher. Perhaps teacher can come up with strategies -- working with you and/or your son -- to devise a plan that your son can go along with.

-- -- --

Lastly, I reached an interesting turning point with our son a year or so ago. We began having semi-regular conversations before each practice to discuss expectations... his and mine... and how to reach those expectations. Afterward, we would have a debriefing of sorts to discuss what did or did not work. (Not every practice, mind you -- don't want to rub salt in the wound.)

In particular -- and it sounds silly -- but I made a joke out of an extremely serious element:

"Don't forget, son, it's called Piano Practice... not Piano Perfect."

"Our goal for the first day of practice is 'Super-Stinky!'"

"Our goal for the second day of practice is 'Slightly Less Super-Stinky!'"

... and so forth.

Let him come up with the silly labels, all the while reinforcing the underlying theme. It's not expected to be perfect, and that you're just looking for small, incremental improvement each night.

-- -- --

Despite my admittedly ogre-like tendencies, I have no problem with using butter on vegetables, bubble-gum flavored toothpaste, etc., to accomplish a goal... and since my underlying dastardly secret mission is to trick him into a life-long enjoyment of his musical talents, I'll also do whatever necessary to take some of the sting out of piano practice.

[What spectacular timing for this thread. Our youngest meets with the teacher in a couple weeks to see if she's ready to undergo the methodical crushing of her spirit.]