Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Piano lesson complaining - LONG

My intent was to offer a different perspective with the hopes that you could find solutions that would help end the conflict you are in right now. Take what works for you and leave what doesn't, but when you have such a negative reaction it never hurts to think about where that's coming from.

Ultimately every family has to decide what their short term and long term goals are for music lessons. The reason we have invested resources into music lessons for our child was: enjoyment of music, opportunity to develop a good relationship with a teacher, the opportunity to develop as a learner as he worked on a passion of his (not one chosen for him).

I often hear music lessons advocated for gifted kids as a way to learn self discipline or the value of hard work. I think this can be oversold. If the passion is genuine and the teacher and parents are supportive then yes, it can work out that way. But, unfortunately if the kid really lacks the passion or the parents get hyperfocused on results it can backfire and do more harm than good.


I wasn't responsible for my own learning so I didn't retain a lot. That's not too surprising to me. And I know it may be hard to stomach when you are devoting so much time and money to this, but the reality is kids who take through elementary school and quit at middle school age often retain little as an adult. That's the norm, not the exception. I don't think that means it is without value if the kid is enjoying it and growing from the experience. But, I would encourage you to get away from the assumption that you are purchasing your child a lifelong skill. I've gone on to learn to play other instruments more competently, but that was because I had a passion for it and I took the initiative.


Sorry, I know several kids that age who were practicing very competently while working at the level of Suzuki book three or four so that's beyond Mary Had a Little Lamb. Eight year olds aren't all the same of course and that's not to say your child has the capability to do that right now. I didn't hear anyone in the thread suggesting you refuse to provide support that he asks for rather that locking horns over how he practices doesn't seem to be working very well.

I have a son that started Suzuki piano at age 5. He just turned 10 and has been taking 4 1/2 years. Music at the moment is mandatory and considered curriculum for my kids (we homeschool). My 6 year old daughter started Suzuki violin at 4.

For both of them, we find a piece of it they love. My son loves "showing off". He likes performing or preparing for events, so the more his teacher can do this, the better. He also love playing FAST. He's working through a bunch of more modern music right now.

On the sight reading piece, we are still with a Suzuki teacher. But at my son's age and level, he could easily move to a traditional teacher now. He reads all his Suzuki music to learn it. We started by just doing a couple minutes of sight reading a day, and worked up from there until he got to the point where he needs the music. My kids probably works 2/3rds the time outside Suzuki repertoire at this point. Maybe you could ease into the sight reading instead of an all or nothing approach if he does enjoy playing by ear more.

Our practice time is "play" time. We joke and fool around and when we're out of time, we're done. Even though my son is excellent and competitive (someone called him a prodigy to his face last week! definitely NOT true), we don't get too intense about it at home. Most of the kids he plays with are so much more serious and competitive than he is. But his teacher works well with his personality. We've had 3 different piano teachers and I think personality fit is huge! If the teacher is throwing too much at your child, I'd definitely talk to the teacher about backing WAY down and going back to just making it fun. How about different styles, improv, composition, theory?

Anyway - good luck with your decisions! Don't be afraid to take a break and switch it up if it isn't working for you right now. My kid does not like to practice every day, but has never actually asked to quit. You know your child best - does he hate every piece of piano, or is just getting to the piano daily the hard part? Having a regular practice time is huge at this house.

Hi,

First of all however many minutes a day your child should practice something is a pretty personal decision. What is or isn't commonly required of children to learn to do at age 8 is just culturally determined and it changes over time. There are an awful lot of parents out there dragging their reluctant kids to soccer, to Kumon, or to religious study, all in the name of child betterment. It's just in the eye of the beholder which activities have merit and how many minutes or hours per day children should engage in them. If you have a deep personal commitment to your child playing the piano well or for a certain amount of time then that's just how it is and the question is how to make that the least emotionally painful for the child.

I thought I would add my personal piano experience from age 8: My mother had a few years of piano as a child but gave it up and later regretted it. She loves to play, she took up piano again as an adult but to her dismay simply was not able to proceed at the same pace. She was determined I would not make the "mistake" of quitting. I showed promise. She required I take lessons as a child. She told me over and over I would regret it as an adult if I stopped. She tried to get me to practice with decreasing success as I liked it less and less. I progressed (probably not very fast but not slow) on only a few minutes of practicing a day. At the age of 8 I made a stand that I hated it.

She wanted me to continue so much that she agreed to trade lessons in anything I wanted: if I would continue piano for one further year then if I still wanted to I could quit, but either way I would then get to take the type of lessons I wanted for one year. At least that is how I remember the arrangement. She regarded the lessons I wanted as frivolous so wasn't about to offer them otherwise. I think she felt that if I could just gain a little more maturity I would see the value in it, felt that in a year I'd naturally just want to continue.

The end result: I continued for another year, practicing an average of about 10 minutes daily (I had to practice 5 and I'd practice 40 occasional days when doing fun things) and making enough progress to keep my teacher happy. The practice did not come without my mom nagging. I quit the day the year ended (much to my mom's surprise as I hadn't mentioned it for the year and she had forgotten when it would be up). And then I got the joy of being rewarded for something I had really earned. Not without some problems as it turned out to be a little more expensive than piano and my parents couldn't afford a year of it initially (at least they said that) -- I got around 8 weeks of lessons paid for by them initially then a couple years later when they could better afford it I got an additional whole year. In later years I got a part time job to pay for it.

I'm so glad she let me quit piano at the end of that year. It was a constant source of unhappiness between the two of us.

Polly

My DD took Piano for 3 years, starting when she was in Kindergarten. She was very good (though admittedly, she would have been incredible had she actually PRACTICED!) Practicing was a battle! Finally, after 3 years, I decided to let her stop. I didn't want her to get to a point of HATING the piano and hoped that one day, she would pick it back up again and enjoy it. 6 months went by before she touched the piano. Now, she sits down quite often and plays for the enjoyment of playing. Someday, I am sure, she'll come back to it, but I want her to decide when, so that she won't despise it and never come back to it.

I could go either way on this depending on how you look at our situation and decisions.

I make my DS7 take gymnastics. It is the only thing that is a struggle for him, the only thing in his life he has to actually work for and the only thing that he can't just watch once and figure out. I know you all know this isn't a brag, but something that often happens with our kids.

He complains heavily after each class about how hard it is. He sometimes cries in class and his coach totally ignores him, giving his whining no attention (at my direction). All the other moms look at me like I am the meanest, pushiest parent. I have told him that if he can go to class for a whole month without saying "I can't do it, it's too hard" then he can stop. It's been 7 months. He just tested out of his first level last week and is moving on to a new class.

I think the difference may be that I am not in any way personally vested in his gymnastics. I would trade it out for something equally as challenging that caused him to reach that point of "I can't" and then persevere. We just happened to stumble upon this one thing.

I have let him quit plenty of other things but forced him to finish the class, season or whatever other "chunk" of time it was divided into.

Common ground here - I'm sure we all see risks to everything coming easily to kids. And, we all see the importance for life in developing persistence and a work ethic.

I'm wondering though if there is any evidence this can be imposed on a kid from the outside. I have seen how a child can be motivated by a true passion to push themselves out of their comfort zone and to work through frustrations. This experience can help a child grow and over the long term contribute to their success. My question: Does it work to force this experience on a child? Is forced hard work at something the child hates a substitute for chosen hard work at a task a child loves? Does being forced to do something you hate only make hard work seem all the more loathsome?

I am blown away by reading some of the posts on this thread. As the parent of two successful kids (d20 and d15), I can't fathom making a kid continue something they hate just to teach them perseverence. I understand making them continue for a period of time because you made an investment of some kind in equipment, and making sure they understand up front about that. I understand making them finish out a season because the lessons are paid for or it lets their team down if they don't. But I just cannot understand forcing a kid to do something they clearly hate (and that makes them cry) for year after year.

As far as I can tell (as a successful adult), there will be plenty of opportunities in life for our kids to have to suffer through things they would rather not do and find very difficult(my college finance class comes to mind!). I really don't believe that forcing kids to continue activities like music lessons or sports that they hate beyond a given season gives them a leg up on this as adults at all. I think it just erodes any trust your kids have in you as a reasonable, caring person in their lives.

Agreed, by the way, on the swimming lessons. Driving is the other required item at our house (another life skill).

My DS has no passion, no task he loves and nothing he will truly work for. Yes, he's only 7. But he will give up on anything if it poses the slightest challenge so how do you know you love it? He just recently learned to button his pants because it required him to actually try for more than 30 seconds and not quit. He wasn't worried about asking friends to do it for him but it was beginning to draw attention from teachers, as he is grade skipped and they thought it was weird. I "forced" him to learn to do it by taking away TV and books until he spent 20 min practicing with me. He learned how, once he stopped freaking out.

Yet when forced to do something, he has an immense sense of pride! He was beaming with joy when he got his next color up wristband in gymnastics. He told everyone we know that he stuck it out and got his next wristband and how happy he was.

Has that changed his attitude in class? Nope. He does the easy stuff happily. When it comes time to learn a new skill he fusses, whimpers, complains that it's too hard and his coach is mean. Tries it, doesn't succeed, tries again and gets a little better. Completes skill with some success and is joyous! Next skill comes up and he's certain he can't do it, pattern begins again.

I truly believe this is a bit of perfectionism in him where he's certain he can't do it and is a gigantic failure because of it.

Swimming lessons were the same way. I hope to have worked this out of him by the time we get to driving lessons.

I have a question about extracurricular... dandy commented that piano lessons are not outside the curriculum, which was my first question. Is piano required or optional?

The second question has to do with the arts in general. What is the goal of having the arts part of the curriculum? Is it a certain level of achievent, e.g. Suzuki Book 3?

My personal viewpoint is that the arts - all of the arts - are for all humanity. Singing is not just for people with nice voices, dancing is not just for people with rhythm, and painting is not just for people who have the hand skills to pull of realism.

If playing piano is part of the curriculum, is the goal to simply stick with it? Or is achievement part of the expectation? Are the goals discussed, with rewards also discussed? Work always comes with rewards.

To the OP, I just also wanted to add that, if you ever find yourself thinking, during practices with your DS, "You are just like your father," with a great deal of tenseness, to consider that a giant red flag to back off and cool off. Maybe that's not at all an issue - I hope not - but I thought I'd mention it.

All the best to you ~

(We just signed DD up for combined piano, drums and voice lessons this week for her 4th birthday. I went in seeking Suzuki violin lessons, but was steered this way instead. I am relieved and DD is very excited.)

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I'm wondering though if there is any evidence this can be imposed on a kid from the outside. I have seen how a child can be motivated by a true passion to push themselves out of their comfort zone and to work through frustrations. This experience can help a child grow and over the long term contribute to their success. My question: Does it work to force this experience on a child? Is forced hard work at something the child hates a substitute for chosen hard work at a task a child loves? Does being forced to do something you hate only make hard work seem all the more loathsome?

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I think this is a false dichotomy: either the kid is totally motivated or the kid is pushed to do something he/she hates. There are many nuances in between. As CAMom and others have said, there are kids who would only eat M&Ms and never brush their teeth if not "pushed," or those who need that little nudge, with encouragement and support, to get over a hump doing something they actually love, not hate. It's hard to understand until you had one of these. And it's even harder when you are self-motivated and cannot relate to the many non-achieving but very gifted kids/adults out there. I finished my PhD in 2 years after the dean told me that the fastest student to finish was a guy who was done in 2.5 years, but I could certainly not do it as a woman. And I said "Hm, just watch me!" and that was it. So I understand internal motivation and I do wish my child was like that, it would make life so much easier. My dd, however, has a hard time doing things she knows she is not going to be perfect at. Fortunately, this rarely happens with academics, but we have dropped classes at many gyms, swimming, piano, drums, ballet, art, etc, way before the class time ran out, and wasted many hundreds of dollars because she wanted to take the class, then something would be "too hard" and the coach/teacher would not "push" but at the same time complain that she is not doing the stuff, practicing, whatever. So when I took over some of these things she did great, and yes, I "pushed" by saying come on, one more time, try it again, blah, blah, show you believe in yourself, etc, we'll play water tag after, etc. And yes, I had other parents looking at me weird in the pool and the gym. But dd loved to succeed, and like CAMom's son has been very proud of whatever she achieved. She was invited to join gymnastics and swim teams several times but I said no because frankly, that would have meant more work for me. She wanted to do both and loves sports and is very athletic and talented. Believe me, if I could have gotten away without the "pushing" I would have, it's so much easier to sit on the side and relax while the coach or the teacher does his/her job.
My 2 cents.