Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Elementary School How far ahead in math are gifted kids typically?

Typically, how far ahead in elementary math are moderately, gifted and highly gifted math kids?

(Humor me...I know there are a lot of factors involved but let's just keep it as simple as possible! :))

I don't think our situation is typical as math is DS7's thing. He has always been at least 1+ year ahead of his grade in math even after early entry to first grade. To make matters worse, during the summer he'd typically make huge leaps in math because it was one of his favorite topics to read about. Now he's at least 3 years ahead of his class, but we have him accelerated only 3 years. All that being said, I do think he's atypical when it comes to math giftedness so I'd probably put him in the "high" category for that subject.

JB

DD7 is in 3rd Grade and was grade skipped in Kindergarten. The first six weeks of school as a 3rd Grader, she tested past the middle of 5th Grade in math and now the school wants to try to accelerate another grade or at least telescope into the next math grade. I was told by the gifted teacher at the school that this was pretty rare. At 6, she tested as moderately gifted.

Do you think our kids are really that gifted in math or that the curriculum is just too easy? Maybe we should moved to Taiwan!

My partner is Taiwanese, and was in school there until she was 11. She says Taiwanese school isn't hard, either. The average kids spend hours on homework and tutoring, but the really smart kids still don't have to work at it.

The kids who are gifted and interested in math can learn the material in a few hours/days whereas the math material is broken down to be taught for 3 weeks!

Some kids are very fast after they learn the material and able to calculate, I would guess these may be the PG and HG kids.

Some kids understand the math but are slow in calculating the answer but given the time, they can come up with the correct answers. I would guess these may be the MG and HG kids.

Depending on the child, some MG - HG kids can probably be accelerated 1-2 years to get some challenge. The HG-PG kids can probably be accelerated 2+ years and I wouldn't be surprised at 3-5 years. Not just skipping but more that the pace of delivery can be increased.

1st Grade to 5th Grade Math is pretty basic.

I can't speak yet about DD since she's not there yet but I know in third grade (I was a young at the time) the school had an algebra tutor that was suppose to come in once a week to work with me (but didn't always show up). I do remember learning some algebra through that but they made me do the normal math homework too. As for testing, I'm not sure of my exact IQ score but other tests would probably put right between MG/HG.

My twin DD6's are both MG/HG and I would say easily 1 yr ahead in math possibly 2. They have tried some typical tests for material 3 years ahead and get about 50% correct

I think it's important to distinguish "learning the material" - learning new concepts and how to do routine things with them - from real mathematical ability, the ability to solve hard mathematical problems in which it isn't obvious what the steps to be taken are. Trouble is, such a vast majority of school time is spent on the former that it's quite hard to focus a comparison on the latter which is really more important and more interesting.

We don't have IQ test data so can't help with the MG/HG/PG stuff, but there is certainly a kind of child for whom there's just no friction with learning the material in this early maths. It isn't that it takes less time to learn - it takes no time at all to learn. All you have to do is explain what the words mean, and then they can do it. DS7 is still like this whether learning concepts intended for 16yos or for 20yo undergraduates.

So, when people only look at material knowledge, it looks as though DS is 9 or 13 or whatever years ahead of his age. Generally, I think how far ahead a mathematical child is with learning the material depends a lot more on exposure than talent. You can't demonstrate mastery of things you've never seen.

However, when you look at the stuff that matters, DS isn't "really" that far ahead - he can't solve the same mathematical puzzles as a good 20yo mathematics undergraduate (choosing words carefully here!) So how far is he ahead in what he can do with puzzle-type mathematical problems? Of course for this you have to compare him with older children who are mathematically interested and being stretched, since most childen, sadly, never get any significant exposure to this kind of challenge. He now finds things (e.g. national competition questions) aimed at mathematically-strong 11yos a bit too easy but I don't think we'd have to go that much further to find things that would be too hard (although this reminds me it is time to look for that boundary again, since it has moved). Say he's 5-7 years ahead for problem-solving, when compared with mathematically-inclined children.

*But* even this over-simplifies, because it's not that ability in problem-solving is independent of exposure, either. I don't know how to estimate or talk about phenomena like children who are intrinsically very mathematical but simply don't get encouragement to tackle hard problems. How fast do they catch up when they do get the exposure, how far is "intrinsic" mathematical ability really intrinsic and how far is it altered by exposure to hard problems? My guess is that it's unstable enough that if you took a bunch of children with little exposure to problem solving and tested them for 2 hours on problem solving, they'd probably be a lot better at problem solving at the end of the 2 hours than they were at the beginning! But then again, how far is my guess affected by having an unusual DS? I'm wittering, I'll stop.

I agree with Colinsmum. Students who are in a problem solving type math class have a different experience. My daughter was so lucky to have a teacher, who was gifted, for third grade math. They were ability grouped. They would go through the lesson in about two seconds and then apply it in a unique way - such as determining how much are the school took up and building runways. This extended her so far into engineering thought processes and gave her a real love of math.

Regular students would not have been interested in this as much as these gifted kids. They spent their time enjoying the calculations. Their teacher was def on their wave lengths.