Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment IQ testing a 12 y/o

We had no intent of retesting dd12 on IQ (she was tested at 7.5) b/c we've never needed the scores for anything. However, we're finding ourselves in a spot where we may need to do so.

When dd attended school in one district to the north of us, she had a 504 plan which allowed her extra time and a quiet environment for testing. For the most part, the work has always been so easy that she hasn't needed the extra time. The only places where we've found her to use it is on math tests post-skipping b/c math is no longer a cake walk for her. She does work very slowly and takes a long time to write papers, etc., but she gets them done on time b/c they are things that are done at home and she can give herself more time than the other kids so to speak.

The 504 was based on two things: her PSI index on the WISC at 7 was in the 42nd percentile as opposed to all of the other indeces being in the upper 90s and she was evaluated by an OT at the same time who said she had SPD and dyspraxia (a motor planning disorder). We've never been too sure on the validity of those dx and we had a psych with expertise in HG kids tell us that she didn't view dd's sensory sensitivity to noise to be a disorder so much as part of the way a gifted brain was wired. She's never been treated for either OT dx.

So, when she changed districts for middle school, the school suggested that we exit the 504 and write the same accommodations into her ALP (accelerated learning plan). We agreed, apparently foolishly. She will likely be changing back to the original district for high school next year and they tell me that she will lose all of these accommodations b/c they can't do that with an ALP and the old testing is too old for a new 504.

I'm going to set up an OT apt for a re-eval which insurance will cover. We may also wind up getting IQ retested. I've been told that her scores will likely be lower at 12 b/c it is harder to get high scores at 12 than 7. As long as she comes out at least at the 95th percentile for FSIQ or GAI (which would still be quite a drop), she'll still qualify for GT and, honestly, she has so many other 99th percentile achievement test scores and other "indicators" of giftedness that I doubt she'll get bumped from GT services. I just worry about a big drop.

Any thoughts?

I wouldn't really worry about a 'big drop' - if there are sensory issues that are being treated, then there may even be an increase (hint, hint - do the OT first, then get the new IQ)

It is harder to 'blow the roof' off the test, but not harder to get into the 95% in general. If you want to be cautious, pay for the IQ test privately, and you don't have to show the school if it was an 'off day.'

Congratulations to you for moving her to a Math class where she has to actually work.

I would suggest that if she isn't typing yet, to hothouse the touchtyping. That is a huge timesaver for my pokey-slow DS14.

I would also suggest that if she hasn't yet done the SAT through the talent search, that now is the time. She might enjoy CTY camp, and it's great to see how they grow. Of course time will be an issue, but hopefully once she is retested, she can get additional time on her 'real' SATs.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

Either way, we're going to have to go with a private eval b/c the school won't pay for things like IQ. The OT isn't a big deal and maybe whatever we get from that may be enough for a new 504 without the IQ.

She actually has taken the SAT through talent search. Her writing and CR scores were both in the low-mid 500s last year (age 11, 7th grade), so she did well enough without any time allowances. Again, I think it's b/c she's such a good reader and is quite good at usage, etc. in writing that the test wasn't killer hard, so she could still do well even w/out accommodations. Whether she'd do better with more time -- probably.

So, from what you're saying, I might not expect to see those 19s again, but if she can get up the 8 and 9 scores she got on the timed parts and block design (also timed and she totally refused to complete it as a result), it might even out to around the same composite score.

Yup - Yup!
Wow those are great SAT scores for an 11 year old with slow processing scores. Do you think it was a matter of pokey-slow, or perfectionism/anxiety issues?

I would repeat the SAT if CTY summer camp is a remote possibility.
Grin-grin

Maybe a combo of both. She really does work slowly but she's also rather meticulous and she was coming off a really bad school year when she was IQ tested. Her teacher the year prior had spent a lot of time yelling at her, calling her lazy, and keeping her in at recess. We wound up homeschooling for the end part of the year b/c she was falling apart.

She really, really wants to do Duke's Marine Lab and has qualifying scores, but we can't afford it. She applied for the JCK Young Scholars program hoping they might help with things like that but she got a reject in the mail on Monday. I suspect that our assets and income were what ruled her out since we were at the upper end of the range they normally consider, we own our home, and dh has a reasonable retirement account. We're not destitute, but we're also not well off enough to pay $3500 plus travel expenses to send her to programs like that without pulling $ out of dh's retirement to do it which doesn't seem like a wise idea.

One other question and please be honest. I really believe that the reason dd has done better with the extra time accommodation, which is used mostly for math tests this year and the CSAP (NCLB test), is that when something isn't extremely easy to the point that it requires virtually no thought, it takes her longer mentally to retrieve the info and just "process" it. I think that the reason she doesn't need it in other subjects for tests is b/c the work is quite easy for her.

However, if she legitimately isn't entitled to more time and is getting an unfair accommodation, she's going to have to learn to deal without it. Do you think that a child whose processing speed is 55 percentiles or more below her other abilities is entitled to extra time if the processing speed itself isn't way below average?

What about a child who has been 'enforced underachievement' by the school and NEVER allowed to work at their readiness level? Do you think that giving that child extra time when you first move them into their readiness level is a good idea? Or is that an unfair accommodation?

I think it's unfair to a child to set them up in that way.

And yes, I think that holding a child back from work that they can do intellecutually so that they can get good grades even though they have age-average or below age-average processing speed is a huge waste of potential and a disservice to society.

What is school for? To help each child develop as well as possible? To help sort out the winners from the losers? Spikey profile kids have spikey profiles - the last thing to worry about is 'is it fair?' Was it fair what to cally your DD lazy and keep her in for recess? You have a responsibility to your daughter and to society to get her the best fit education you can. If that means advanced classes with extra time, that's what your child needs. Why wouldn't a younger kid who needs higher level intellectual challenge get more time to move that pencil?

I think it's good that you are concerned that you aren't ripping someother mom's kid off.

((shruggs and more shruggs))
Grinity

That's my worry too. Dd12 has maintained straight As throughout an IB MYP middle school with accelerated/GT classes for math and literacy the whole way through. I do think that there is some benefit to learning to deal with the fact that life isn't going to always give you extra time b/c you are slower, but I'd hate to have her grades drop next year in high school when they will count for college applications. I'd hate that to be the year where she is suddenly thrown into the fire w/out an accommodation she's grown accustomed to having.

I agree that this is something wise to be aware of. It's sad that this is how things are , and yet...this is how things are.

I really only imagine that it might present a problem in math b/c that's the only area where she uses the extra time. We'll see, I guess.