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I'm sorry things didn't go so well. I guess the only advice I have is to stick with it. From rereading your earlier post, before they did this other testing, it seems they agreed that your DS was working far beyond kindy level. Hopefully, they will realize that the other testing they did was just a snapshot of what he was doing one particular moment in time.

As for keeping at it, even though we eventually did get a skip to second, we still have had several meetings to try to sort things out (and at one point I'm pretty sure the school staff hated us!) But with persistence, and re-explaining things over and over about how our kid really is different, hopefully things will start to happen.

If there is anything you can do to help - e.g, send in workbooks that you think are appropriate for the teacher to use, offer to volunteer to help in the class to help make up for the time it takes to differentiate -- I'm sure the school would appreciate it, even if they don't accept the help.

Here's something I just learned, which I'm sure others here have known for awhile. It is very important to document everything extra that the school has given your child, so that there is a possibility of continuation of services the next year, when very likely new players will be involved. Preferably, this documentation will be in some official school format, such as an IEP. We found out the hard way that there was nothing in our son's record about the successful differentiation he received and should have continued to receive. Since we didn't know the school didn't know this, we appeared as "those parents" with a sense of entitlement, simply because we expected what the first school in the district offered to continue. Now we know better!

Good luck, and I hope you do consider applying to DYS. There is a great suppport group and they can help you get in touch with other kiddos like your own. Speaking of kids not liking similar things, we just found out that the awesome rocks/gems/fossils class that was offered after school next week was canceled, because our DS was the only one to sign up for it.

I'm glad things are going well at home.

Can I ask a question? If he's doing third grade math, why did you want him to skip into first grade? My husband is in favor of skipping, while I am adamantly opposed and this is one of the things I don't understand. Even if you skip to third the pace will still be wrong.

I can't answer for locounu, but I can tell you my viewpoint. We lobbied hard for a grade skip though our son is still at the top of his class and needs more even after the grade skip. It is my belief that it's a lot easier to differentiate one grade up than two grades up, and our DS has a better chance of finding a few intellectual peers in the higher grade. Our grade skip this year has been hugely successful, except it took awhile to get appropriate math sorted out. No one noticed that he was a year younger - he's blended right in.

May I ask why you oppose skipping so much? My DH was very opposed when DS was young, because DH was very sporty and didn't want DS to be at a disadvantage. As it turned out, our DS is not very sporty, and so that wasn't an issue. There are lots of reasons for and against, and everyone's story is different. Just curious.

st pauli girl, thanks a lot. I am going to document as well as I can; it must have been dreadful to find out that bit of wisdom the hard way. The meeting minutes should help some, and I am going to copy or keep all homework. I am going to volunteer to help out in the class. I will definitely consider applying to DYS when we're in a better position to do it. I want to let our son recuperate a little before we consider testing him again.

Tallulah, it's as st pauli girl says: I am hoping that he will find kids more his level in a higher grade. I don't know if multiple skips would be in his future, but this seems like a risk-free way to test out the concept; he'd only be with kids up to a year older, and would probably fit in all right, especially since he's very physically active. Also, it seems like a beachhead of sorts might be reached; it would be hard to deny after that that he is due some accommodations, as long as he does well, which he easily would.

You're right that the pace would still be wrong in third. I anticipate in our local system that he would face endless drill on multiplication and division facts, which would be boring. One thing that would be very helpful for him, though, is that the cookie-cutter art projects, simple sing-song learning drills informed by Multiple Intelligences, etc. would be replaced by things like grammar, science, etc., which is something. Skipping to first gets him a little closer to the beginning of more stimulating work, where he doesn't have any accommodations at all right now for science, and in the meantime would give him more intensive work on handwriting at a more appropriate level.

Last night, the boy brought home the first run of his new homework. It's not too bad. There is reading aimed at teaching him some beginning grammar concepts (parts of speech, which he already knows past this level), vocabulary, and spelling (again not up to his level, but there are places for him to choose and write his own words). There is a thoughtfully chosen set of math problems, for example a simple permutation problem, basic multiplication (e.g. the number of tails, ears and legs on eight cats), and time duration. It seems like the teacher chose the problems with an eye to feeling out his level, and she sent a note with the homework asking for feedback.

I hadn't thought of that. It makes sense, though that it would be easier to find more people to in a study group if it's less far ahead.

As for why I'm against it. It's mainly that for my timid, young (already with kids up to two years older thanks to redshirting), socially clueless child I don't think it would be good socially, and wouldn't be the fix academically. I won't say never, but it will be hard for someone to sell me on the idea.

Status update: the flow of math homework stopped (it was Sunshine Math stuff from the Florida state system), and when we inquired were told to print the worksheets from the web, have DS5 do them on his own and submit a summary. After a couple of weeks of no reading/writing homework, that's started up again (edhelper.com worksheets). DS5.5 likes going to school as much as he does day care, and basically considers it to be a different daycare.

We have an upcoming TAT meeting toward the end of April. We met with the K teacher, who told us that based on such things as him having a meltdown over his zipper not working one day, and the fact that she observed him acting like an animal at playtime, she feels that he's "right where he needs to be", and she'd be recommending no skip.

I told her that while I understand her concerns, my main problem is that he's not being taught anything, as enrichment worksheets are not the same as lessons teaching concepts. I said that if the school were to actually start giving him lessons for the first time in material he doesn't already know, I'd be happier for him to be with his age-mates all the time. I also said that I'd be all right with him not being taught reading or writing, as he seemed to be picking that up fine on his own, but that I wanted him to actually be taught math and science for the first time, so we don't have to stumble through it on our own at home and so that 8 hours a day at school aren't wasted. I said I'd be happy with buying a math curriculum like Singapore Math and sending it with him to school, if they won't do pull-outs, but that someone would have to be available to teach him. (I think I probably came off as a bit snippy, even though I was guarding against it.)

After that, afraid that the school would rely on inertia and the K teacher's recommendation to give DS5 little or nothing that he needs for next year, we tested him. It turns out that he has DYS-qualifying scores despite extreme testing anxiety that led him to not answer many questions (I hope never to have to put him through those tests again). Now I'm wishing we'd done it earlier, since any advocacy from DYS won't come until after the TAT meeting.

Hey - that's great news! I'm sorry it was hard on him and hope that by the time he's ready to take SATs or ACTs for College that he actually enjoys the experience.

Must be nice to see the confirmation of your son's academic needs finally!

Keep documenting what is going on at the school, and all the conversations with the teacher. I think it's time for an email, cced to the Principle where you review what was discussed, and what the options are, and which option is going to be put in place.

BTW - has subject acceleration already been ruled out? It seems like a visit to an older room for Math and Science would add sparkle to your son's day while allowing him to be 'a kid' for a bit longer.

Personally I think the behavior isn't enough reason not to place him in 1st now and go to 2nd next Fall. What would you rather have: time for him to 'do his own thing' after school and 'be a kid' during his free time, or a change to 'be a kid' during kindy but lack of free time because the academic needs have to be filled?

To me, the biggest question is 'does he enjoy his age peers more would he rather interact with older kids?' The academics have to be.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I hope so. Our psychologist said that for a lot of the questions he was crouching behind the table, with just his eyes and the top of his head showing. I can just picture it. He is pretty highly perfectionistic, and I had hoped that we were past the worst of it, but I think the testing brought out the worst of it again. I have seen a very recent resurgence of the perfectionism in other areas too... for instance, throwing an absolute fit upon getting one spelling word wrong, on an attempt to remember it from reading without seeing it first. I think he was a trooper to get through the testing, knowing him the way I do.

Yeah! I never doubted MUCH, but there was always the occasional fear of being one of the pushy parents. That's how the school played it before, and they had my wife half-convinced (she's got her "mind right" again now).

Thank you for this advice. The TAT team includes a vice principal, and one of our worries is that we will seem to be giving a vote of no confidence in the entire team, but I agree with you that we may need to go over the VP's head. I don't want to wait until after the TAT meeting to get the ball rolling.

Right now, we've already sent an authorization and request to the school psychologist to discuss the results with our psychologist, and I will most likely follow up after that as you suggest. I want to get a read first on the psychologist's position, and the extent to which the K teacher's statements are a foreshadowing of what might have happened at the TAT meeting if we didn't act, i.e. the extent to which the K teacher is a mouthpiece for the TAT team at this point. (I may make the situation out to be a bit Machiavellian, but I can't help being a little paranoid, though I continue to like this K teacher and think she is honestly motivated by her desire that our son be well-served. She's acting according to her lights, they're just different ones.)

I brought it up at the first TAT meeting, and again in our most recent meeting with the K teacher, but she didn't say anything one way or the other, but that she would have to think about the best way to handle his math needs next year. I think she agrees that he deserves some level of teaching, just like any kid does at the school.

Our psychologist recommended asking whether he could attend 1st for the second half of the day (he's in half-day K), as a way of gauging whether he's a good candidate for a skip and to allay any fears / stuff any arguments that he's not mature enough. I think your suggestion and hers both sound like great options, and I will bring both of them up.

About the behavior, as well as his age and size (he's on the young and small side for his kindergarten class), I agree with you. Would they hold back an age-appropriate first grader who once had a zipper meltdown and acted like a T. Rex on occasion from going to second? I am pretty good at separating the argumentary wheat from the chaff, and will come up with some good ways to point out the logical disconnect. Probably starting with the email to the principal, and certainly at the TAT meeting.

That's the thing. One of our options is obviously home schooling, except that we're not able financially to keep one parent home full-time right now (actually, we could swing it, but it would take giving up a lot). The idea was brought up of having him go to daycare and we teach him in an hour or so a night, but obviously that's not preferable to leaving him in the daycare/school and teaching him at night, except that he would have to do the dull school homework most likely, taking away even more free time at night. We could homeschool and send things to daycare to do during the day, but I am not comfortable with short-changing him that way. He deserves to be stimulated all day long, just like the other school kids.

Another option we started exploring is local parochial schools, but the best fit (otherwise) pushes creationism pretty hard, which rules it out for us completely.

Another option, which I don't want to have to do but will if pushed, is to apply for a hardship determination from the state, based on the town's failure to provide for our son, and if we get one would let us take him to any school in the state that we can drive to. There is one town in particular within 15-20 minutes that is rumored to have quite good programs. I also hope that, since I believe our school district is on a watch-list of troubled ones, the school will offer some accommodations based on the threat of applying for a hardship determination.

He has always liked playing with older kids and adults more; he just isn't averse to acting silly with his age peers. The bit about him acting like an animal seems to be conceived to oppose statements we previously made to the TAT team about his preference for older peers.

Thanks so much for helping us. I've been depressed about this whole situation, and now feel like there's a lot more hope.

I don't have much helpful to offer--I just wanted to say, "Gee, this sounds familiar." In fact, my DD's K teacher started off our first conference about her (which was about behavior!) by saying, "Some people would want to skip a child like DD, but I think it's a bad idea because..." We hadn't breathed a word about skipping! BTW, we still never have. However, we did ask for more work at her level. Teachers have routinely acknowledged that DD is well above grade level while not actually doing much of anything about it and offering all sorts of reasons why not. The best we got was independent reading at her level and a folder full of advanced workbooks we bought that she could work on during "folder time." They tried having her tutor other kids, which was not a success. She was sent to a higher grade for reading for a bit but this was later rescinded for "logistical" reasons. Requests for harder spelling words and math enrichment were denied. For a while we saw an occasional encrichment homework assignment, but those have vanished. Basically, the school acknowledged her abilities but acted like we were a PITA for asking for anything at all. We are moving her to a gifted magnet school.

Ouch. That is what I feel is happening to us. I was hoping that the testing results would be impossible to ignore, but I may be underestimating the opposition. :| Logistical reasons... blech.