Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion To the homeschoolers about unschooling

I have no doubt that journalists following me around could make me look like a neglectful, horrible mother, or mother of the year, depending on how they were inclined. I'm neither. Journalism isn't always about truth, it's often about a good story.

However, even though I do consider myself an unschooler, I am really enjoying this thread because it has made me more comfortable about what I do. The more permissive side of radical unschooling gets much more of a run, and it is lovely to hear it's still unschooling if I have a structure and rules in my house!

For my family, I also feel that it's ok to use some curriculum. John Holt described curriculum as guide books, and I liked that because it made me free to use/not use as I saw fit. I don't have to go every place mentioned in a guide book, or miss things just because they aren't in my guidebook, but if the book has some great stuff in it, and I'm enjoying it - why not?

It was a real eye opener for me when I was teaching and I saw how "hit and miss' the school education actually was. We like to pretend it's all neat, but really it's not. (That's one of the reasons there is so much repetition.) Unschooling just acknowledges that, and builds on it.

Thanks for finding it GreenGully!

Yeah, I go back to "do what works," regardless of what you call it. I don't know that there's any reason to strive to be 100% unschooling any more than there is a reason to strive to be 100% parent-led (or 100% teacher-led, for that matter). Putting the philosophy before the needs of the child is certainly contrary to unschooling, and I would argue, it's contrary to the aims of education in general.

Personally, I would be uncomfortable if my child skipped a whole subject for years at a time. But I think that's unlikely. It's too easy to slip learning in, either by making the subject appeal to their particular way of learning or by dropping little bits here and there so they don't even realize they're getting the subject.

But I'm not really an unschooler.

I wasn't offended, BassetLover. I just wanted you to know that stuff like that video is out there, and there's usually an agenda behind it. Skepticism is warranted.

Frankly, I figure that even if there's a family out there who is "unschooling," which translates for them as not serving their kids' educational needs at all, it has nothing to do with anyone else's version of unschooling. It's not like there's only one way to do it, you know? So what one family calls unschooling might look nothing at all like what another unschooling family does. It's ridiculous for news organizations to try to present that one family as representative. I always hate to see that kind of bias presented as if it were fact.

I wasn't offended either

I should add that if my son wasn't interested in a subject area then he wouldn't pursue it.
It is often asked of unschoolers "what if he decides he wants to be an astronaut and he has missed all those years of science learning?". My answer is that because he is self directed in his learning he will most likely have ventured into learning plenty about science well before he's considered becoming an astronaut. He'll have access to any texts he likes and if he shows a strong interest then I'll offer to find him a mentor within the community. And if it comes out of the blue then I know of lots of stories of young adults who, when motivated, are able to complete most of highschool science curriculum in a a few months with no trouble.

This is the belief/justification often cited in the homeschool/unschooling community and I have to say I don't buy it. It seems to have almost the ring of urban legend to me. Being able to catch up enough to overcome years of being behind in order to get to the place where a kid could possibly be admitted to college? Sure, I buy that since most colleges take nearly everyone who applies. What I don't believe is students doing absolutely nothing in science for a lifetime and then in a couple of months getting to the point where they are capable of being admitted to a study at a high level and do well.

It seems at the very heart of this magical never work but it will all come to you is an overgeneralization error based on early milestones. It is the belief that aha the kid learned to talk and read and didn't have to be taught so aha they will be able to learn everything else in the same instantaneously seeming way.

Learning biology, chemistry, physics isn't something that happens instantly as a result of development. Rather, they require study and practice. Granted fast learning gifted kids on their own may get there much faster than the pace of a traditional curriculum. That doesn't mean though that it is something that really happens for anyone without some degree of effort and time. To believe that all that matters is the desire to learn and the attitude that now you want it and then it will happen quickly reinforces the exact message that is bad for kids. It is the message that what counts is your innate talent not how hard you work or the time you put to a task.

We homeschooled all the way through. Most people would describe us as unschoolers but I'm not invested in the label. There are great homeschoolers and unschoolers out there. But, I will also be honest and say I don't think the media would have to look far to find kids who aren't going to be well prepared for adult life (and I'm sure they wouldn't have to look hard with schooled kids either). I'd like to say every example I've seen of unschooling was fantastic, but in reality I've seem middle school age students who were illiterate and lacked basic elementary school skills. Maybe they'll overcome it or maybe they won't.

I certainly see that PG kids can skip steps and can make leaps and bounds that will astound parents ,but I suspect most folks will find this happens less and less as their children get older. But, when it comes to mastering upper level course content parents I believe parents are kidding themselves if they think a kid can go from illiterate to college ready in a few short months if they put their minds to it. I understand why this belief would bring comfort as it absolves parents of all responsibility and worry. I do not believe though it is based in reality.

Yeah, but those subjects (IMHO) are a lot like ballet. There's no reason not to start young, if you have a kid who's so inclined. But you can pick them up for the first time at 12 or so, having had no particular prior experience, and still go on to do them professionally, with sufficient motivation and natural talent.

I do think there's a "too late" point for a self-directed learner to decide on some paths - but that's true of traditionally schooled kids, too. And I definitely agree that, at some point, it takes hard work over a period of time to be really good, at the adult level, in just about anything. Which is why you need sufficient motivation if you start on a path later than your peers and still want to be successful at high levels.

My real-life knowledge of someone who was unschooled was a 15yo who couldn't do 4th grade math. She liked to read, so could read fiction relatively well, but didn't have the skills to read and interpret scientific writing, or to do the sort of literary analysis expected of a kid her age. But I suspect that "unschooling" was a more socially-acceptable explanation than "We got mad at the school district so pulled her out, and then having her around during the day to watch the younger siblings was a good deal for us, and then she was so far behind that she didn't want to be a 13yo in 3rd grade in public school, so we just let her do her own thing."

Which is a far cry from "My kid is currently disinterested in math, so we aren't doing anything formal in math. But there are workbooks on a variety of topics on her bookshelf, a handful of websites that include math games on the home page of her browser, I give her a budget and shopping list at the grocery store and if she can find an extra treat that fits into the budget we'll buy it, and we play Yahtzee as a family every weekend with each player keeping their own score."

I suspect in cases where that happens (if/where they exist), kids have been soaking up more of the subject than the parent realizes all along.

My younger DS is only 6, so this may be one of those irrelevant younger cases, but in terms of personality and learning style--which probably won't change much--he goes on a tear and learns everything there is to know about a subject that interests him. Granted, the subjects are usually pretty easy at this stage. But I can imagine an older version of him getting inspired, dropping everything else, and studying science full-time. It wouldn't take very long for a kid like that to catch up. I think it's unlikely, but possible.

Science would probably be the hardest subject in which to do that given the usefulness of lab work to learning and the improbability of getting *all* the labs one needs in the space of a few months.

I certainly wouldn't recommend banking on the strategy.

My bigger worry is that if a kid isn't exposed to things, then how will that child know if s/he's interested in studying more of it or not? If you never try it, you never want to try it. I think part of being a responsible educator--at home or in a traditional school--is the job of broadening the horizons of the kids whom you are teaching. I don't think a kid should have to slave away at something that doesn't suit, but I think there are plenty of ways to approach subjects that will make them not feel like slaving away.

A little creativity and problem-solving in an educator goes a long way for growing a curious child, I think.

I suspect a kid who had no interest whatsoever in science until age 12 or older is not going to *want* to become an astronaut or anything else science-related. So as long as the kid winds up with a basic working knowledge of science by graduation, I'd say it's fine. But it would be a shame for a kid to *think* that she didn't like science because she never studied any science, when it was really a wonderful path for her.

The whole point of the parents being a part of the equation in unschooling is that they are there to facilitate learning and offer opportunities for that which includes exposing them to a diverse range of experiences. I can't imagine a child being more exposed to the pathways the world in all its diversity than an unschooled kid who gets to spend their days living in it rather than sitting at a desk for six hours a day. It is a complete myth that the unschooled child has less exposure to such things. All it takes is an expressed interest from the child and the parent will hopefully offer various resources to explore that. Sometimes that is in the form of strewing (leaving resources in the child's line of sight without any pressure or expectation that they will take it up - more often used when the parent is hoping to introduce something the child might like into their scope). School just isn't the only way to gain exposure to a range of subjects, in fact my belief and experience is that it really only presents a very limited range of subjects and approaches to learning.
ETA I think there is a misconception that unschooling means zero study. It really doesn't mean that at all. It just means that that study is child directed. And if a child clearly isn't doing anything at all then it should be obvious to the parent that the child needs more structure and that unschooling isn't really working for that child.

Interesting conversation. My son just returned from CTY and told me that some of his friends were doing high schl science classes in such a way that after 3 weeks the half kids were able to score a 3 or above on the AP exam. Im not sure if Imm remem the conversation aurately or if DS had all the details. I dont know what kind of preperation the kids had but I do know that some rapid learning took place.

I think the bigger question is how to handdle a childd who is shut down in an area of learning for any reason in any setting. There is no one answer here. But it is a question that parents here face. If a child is functioning well then child led is so wonderful. If a child isnt functioning in an area the we parents try lots of ways - including letting it alone for a bit -to give that supported push.
peace grinity