Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Yet another unyielding school system

About a 10 year old who accelerated and completed 8th grade at a private school and is being told by the public school system that he has to enroll in the 6th grade again in their district.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/tech...l+says+Ontario+system/3419735/story.html

UGH!!! I LOATHE that excuse (driving). And here in GA, they are considering bumping up the age from 16 to 18... so by the time DS6.5 (2nd grade) is 16, he probably won't be able to get a license at all, regardless of the grade he is in!

That makes my blood just BOIL!!! lol

Puberty seems to be one I'm hearing a lot lately, too. The kids will be traumatized when they are the last to get breasts, etc. Not everybody hits puberty at the same age even if you somehow managed to get everyone to be the exact same age in each grade.

I wonder if she could keep him home and do an online high school.

I literally just busted out laughing!

I loved this comment from the article:


Here is our chance as an educated community to help. Please consider writing to Ms. Pyke and explaining why their decision is based on invalid data.

Why is the big emphasis put on 'social' issues rather than education??? The job of a school should be to educate children, not to facilitate their social lives.

I'm 34 and I don't have much in the way of breasts, either. I don't remember this being a section on my university applications.

Wow...this is a lot of what we're dealing with now. Moved to a new school district and DS has been sent back at least 2 grade levels.

I feel so bad for these children. I don't understand why as adults we're allowed to socialize with people from all age ranges but as children we're expected to socialize only with those born within 12 months of us. It seems absurd. My 5 year old would much rather play with children 2 or so years older than those his own age, given the choice. Unfortunately in school he doesn't have that choice. Even at recess it's only those in his grade level. When children are held back a year you don't hear the administrators shouting about the damage that will do to their social lives.

Haha, oddly enough my college applications didn't have that section either.

And I completely agree. I keep hearing that DS needs to be with his age for "social" reasons. I thought that school was for learning but the way that some administrators make it sound that comes in a very distant second. I do agree that learning social skills is important but that isn't the primary reason to spend hours and hours each day in class.

New advocacy idea: Don't give PG girls hormone free milk! Early breast development instead of Iowa Acceleration Scale as a measure of grade skip success!

Blame the snark on school advocacy meeting this afternoon.

Actually, in my dd11's case she's done much better socially with the kids who are 12-30 months older than her than she did pre-skip.

What about when everyone use to go to school in a one room school house.? Never a socail issue there. What about the kids that they hold back a year or two or three? Never a social issue there. That has got to be the most frustrating thing to hear is that a child shouldn't skip due to social reasons. I can handle the social issues way better then I can the education part of my child's life.

Hm, I think I come from a slightly different place on this. That school is being absurd. Nevertheless, I believe that school is a place for both academic *and* social learning.

School personnel should never make a blanket statement about how a grade skip will hurt all children socially-- as we know, there are lots of examples where the child fits in better with kids who are closer to being their intellectual peers, even if those kids are much older.

And yet, I think social factors should be weighed with the academic factors in making a decision about placement. I am NOT talking about the imaginary long-term factors (talking about driving when it's a 6 year old makes no sense, for heaven's sake, how do they know who that child will be in 10 years?!)-- but the factors immediately in view for the next year or two. The Iowa Acceleration Scale does a good job of identifying social elements that should be considered and balanced along with academic needs. I don't think we should dismiss this part of a child's life: social development is actually very important for intellectual growth.

My DS, for instance, would be capable of a grade skip academically, but not socially; for now we have settled on subject acceleration as the right solution for him. We'll see how long it works.

What I would like is for school staff to be nuanced enough in their thinking to weigh the needs of each particular child, and educate the child accordingly. Shouldn't be too much to ask.

DeeDee

I completely agree with you DeeDee but the article in question is yet another example of the blanket statements. Do we know this particular child and their social abilities? No,of course not, but by the quoted information from the school authority I have to conclude that they themselves really didn't consider the child on an individual level.

Many teachers and school administrators don't seem to realize that what's right for the vast majority of students is disastrous for small minorities. By way of comparison, no competent doctor would hand out a medication that causes a serious allergic reaction in 2% of the population without checking to see if his patient was allergic first.

This is one of the things that vexes me most about educators, and it's also one of the things that tells me that the field lacks professionalism. Many educators talk confidently about, for example, "research," yet they're clearly speaking about how something affects the majority and are ignorant about the needs of the gifted population. You can't call yourself a professional if you aren't even aware of something that affects 2%-2.5% of the population you serve. Not to mention that the lockstep philosophy is another indicator of lack of knowledge and understanding that's central to the field of education.

Who put these people in charge?

Okay, rant off. I'll send a (much less blunt) message to the administrator and try to help this kid.

Val

Okay, I did it. I wrote her an email.

I sent a link to A Nation Deceived.

Val

The only place other than school where beings of the same age are placed together is a feedlot.

Sarcasm aside, keeping these kids with kids their age stunts their social development.

It would be good to email the administration and CC news/media also. Heh

So by this logic, the girls who develop breasts at age 10 (that's probably normal these days, I'm thinking of the early ones when I was a kid) should be accelerated a couple of years so that they will fit in. (I'm not sure exactly how they would identify boys who needed skipping, and I'm pretty sure I don't want to know.) So then what would happen when they weren't old enough to drive with the rest of the class? These social factors are so very slippery.

As for the actual article that started this thread, I would have to ask Ms. Pyke just what she would consider to be "his peers". Yes, children do well when learning with their peers--the problem is that her definition is strictly age-based.

My girls would be up a creek if they were placing them educationally based upon physical development. Dd9 will be 10 at the end of Sept. and still weighs about 55 lbs and is by far the shortest in her class. I guess that's what happens when you have a dad who is 5'6".

I wonder if all of the media attention on this case will cause the school system to rethink their decision. I also wonder if it is in part based upon the fact that the boy at the center of this situation attended private school up until now. I can imagine that the school system is wondering if he is really as able as he is being portrayed or if the school was teaching easy material and passing him through or if it is a parental ego issue and the grades were bought or coached... I could see a lot of possibilities coming to mind on the end of the ps since they have no personal track record with the child.

I sent Pyke a polite email on Sunday and received a response today. Very straightforward saying only that they do utilize IEPs to tailor students' educational experiences, but she said nothing about this particular child.

... a very non-answer answer ...

Too bad.

At least you got an answer...I wrote her a (very polite) message but didn't get any response.

Val

I thought the article sounded kind of fishy.

"He was first enrolled in the Roeper school for gifted children in Bloomfield Hills, Mich. His mother, Hala Sbeiti, said the U.S. location proved inconvenient and they moved back to Windsor.


Most of Bachar's education thus far has been a private school that covers the intermediate grades of the Ontario curriculum."

Why is the U.S. school specified, but not the Ontario school where he completed 8th grade? I think it's within the realm of possibility that Ms. Pyke is being discrete about a child. I would like to know more about this private school that the boy's community paid for before I draw any conclusions. Or find out if the school district did any evaluation of him.

Yes, I thought bits of it were odd too (especially the inconvenience thing). If you google his name, you'll find a few other references to him, including one about local people raising money for his education a few years ago.

I was reacting primarily to the administrator's statements about "research" and that he's too young for high school. If she had a valid reason for putting him back three years, such as not trusting his academic record/achievement, she shouldn't have made absolutist statements about his age.

Just my 2c.

Val

My thought was that she might not want to publicly belittle the child's academic achievements, so she attributed the decision to policy.

Mustaches of course!!!

Here's an idea (maybe not a really good idea) but at least it's not the same old/same old.

Let's make laws that allow a child to drive based on their year of high school instead of their age. Of course the parent's don't have to allow the child to drive the minute they enter 11th grade, but wouldn't it be nice to have the option?

It might help coax some of those reluctant boys who really need a skip into accepting one.

Or you could make an 'either/or' milestone based on age OR grade.

Smiles,
Grinity

Good one. I was thinking when their voices crack.

The Montessori school both our boys are in is accredited up to the 12th grade. I am glad we will never have to deal so much with the state

I sent an email to Ms. Pyke. Nothing will likely come of it.