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    Joined: Sep 2007
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    <standing up and applauding>

    Yay, Taminy! Well-put. Yes, yes, yes, from start to finish.


    Kriston
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    I totally get what you are saying Tammy but I look at all these posts about parents meeting with the schools, trying to get appropriate programs. There is a lot of pushing going on to get the appropriate learning environments.

    What if you lived in an area that wouldn't look at any scores except the OLSAT test. So your PG kid wouldn't get a shot at great accelerated program unless they scored in the 99th percentile (which has a poor correlation with IQ until later grades and they had to do this in pre-K). And then all the 99th scoring kids went into a lottery for those spots.

    No amount of cajoling would change anything and you lived in a neighborhood where kids were struggling with learning to count 1-10 in K. What would you really do?

    I think that until you face that, theories are fine but not actionable. Since the Dept of Justice threatened with the lawsuit, the NYC DOE set down the strict guidelines and no exceptions. My friend's child had a raw score of 167 on the SBV for the Hunter test and didn't get in because he didn't interview well and I have met the kid but the competition was tough. In our case, DD just said she didn't want to go there in the interview. And the OLSAT was terrible last year. She would have needed special ed based on the results. This year, 99th. And our options last year was the Jesuit school where she became the teacher's helper -- in K. And that is a really good school.

    I think as we go through serious budget cuts across states, the gifted programs are at great risk -- just like the 70s when the majority felt gifted kids could manage. And whatever I have to do to try and give my kid the options, I will do.

    And to Kriston's point, yes a kid could test again and get into DYS, but what about the other way, where a kid that is in, doesn't score so high later on but a kid that always scores at that level doesn't ever get in. What about that kid, who at 140 would really benefit also? Since the other kids in the program drop to that level and benefit?

    Ren

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    Originally Posted by Wren
    I totally get what you are saying Tammy but I look at all these posts about parents meeting with the schools, trying to get appropriate programs. There is a lot of pushing going on to get the appropriate learning environments.

    What if you lived in an area that wouldn't look at any scores except the OLSAT test. So your PG kid wouldn't get a shot at great accelerated program unless they scored in the 99th percentile (which has a poor correlation with IQ until later grades and they had to do this in pre-K). And then all the 99th scoring kids went into a lottery for those spots.

    No amount of cajoling would change anything and you lived in a neighborhood where kids were struggling with learning to count 1-10 in K. What would you really do?

    I guess that's my point. Having to compete to get an appropriate education is unacceptable. The idea that even if you "qualify", you have to leave it to the chance of a lottery, is unacceptable. The fact that under those conditions already disadvantaged kids are further disadvantaged because: a) they have had less enriching pre school experiences and b) they can't afford test prep or private testing, is unacceptable. I DON'T accept that that's how it has to be, and there are plenty of districts that don't sort kids based on a pre-kindergarten test.

    Yes, a lot of people are having to advocate to get their kids' needs met, but I think test prep creates a circular problem. People prep their kids because they don't trust the schools to recognize their needs, the schools don't recognize their needs because they don't get giftedness and they think gifted programs are elitist, schools think gifted programs are elitist because they are faced with the fact that families who have the means are paying for test prep and--in their eyes--buying the outcomes they want.

    I still maintain that prepping kids for ability tests invalidates the results unless there is a way to factor in that preparation. I understand that there may be a sense of need to do so if there are a lot of other people prepping their kids. Circular problem number two.

    What would I do if I lived within such a district? As I said before, I'm glad I didn't have to make that choice.

    I don't agree that budget cuts need to result in loss of services to gifted kids. Most educational strategies that are actually meaningful don't cost more (acceleration, clustering, guided independent studies), at least in a medium to large sized school or district. These kids need a teacher whether they are gifted or not, so it doesn't have to be more staff: it just has to be adequately prepared/educated staff. I don't believe that the difficulties we face in getting gifted kids' needs met are primarily financial, I think that the difficulties we face are philosophical. There is a widespread lack of understanding at the administrative, classroom AND parent levels that giftedness is something other than being a high achiever/good student. To me that's the real battle ground--and I would argue that for the reasons I've already given, test prep is a significant barrier to forward progress.

    Simple solutions? None to offer.... cry

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    Originally Posted by Austin
    Not true. There was no passing score for the GT test then and nor today.
    I don't know where you heard this. There absolutely is a "passing" score, a score below which a person is not allowed to join the military because they are just too dull to be any use. Prior to the Iraq war, the standards were quite high; they have been been lowered because the military was having trouble meeting quota. So I don't see how you can say there isn't a passing score when in fact there is a passing score.

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