Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Aspergers?

Here's my question: if he's a gifted kid, is he playing alone because of social deficits, or because he finds the other kids boring? I mean...if he's thinking about the relative merits of the 1967 Corvette vs the 1975 model, and the other kid is thinking "whee! Car-car!" there's not a lot of common ground.

More info on ny son- we had our first SP/OT assessement yesterday- very stressful!

He was average to above average from a cognitive point of view; no obvious issues..BUT- what I thought was baby talk seems to be a sort of lazy talking, using his tongue out a bit (so it can sound baby-ish)sometimes jargony..he did it for a lot of the assessment (no jargon), but can be corrected when asked. He does do it more when in a new place, with other people , etc..also sometimes to himself while playing...the Psychologist wasn't sure to make of it- possibly some stimming ? (although no obvious repetition of same things that I can hear). Has anyone ever heard this type of behaviour?

Now for the dreaded checklist questionnaires...

Also- to some comments on this topic- how does one assume a child is ignoring other kids because he is thinking above them,especially at 3.5 years, when he isn't being supradvanced overall and doesn't impress me with brilliant comments (other than, in my son's case, he reads well)?

Hi

I have to say that my son sounds a lot like yours (mine is now 13) and he still has every car in our town's license plate, make and model memorized. He is very emotional and caring and loves to be hugged. He is the kind of kid who doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings and has difficulty making decisions that would involve making one person happy and another one sad.

That said, we never thought it could be AS because he was so sensitive and smart. We thought he wasn't comfortable in social situations because of his exceptional giftedness. Imagine our surprise when we had him tested and the tests came out as Asperger's. I was devastated and really have refused to fully believe it (many people would swear he doesn't have 'it' because they think he is so 'perfect'). But, I have to say that after 3 years of weekly therapy sessions, he has gotten sooooo much better, feels better about himself and has lots of good friends.

The diagnosis (as painful as it was for me ... and whether it is or isn't 'true') has helped us get him 'help' and find ways to deal with social situations. I don't think we would have gotten as far without the therapy. I have decided to look beyond the label.

Good luck.

Thanks so much for the supportive comment...I have been destroyed with anxiety about all of this, and am still going through the process...

WOW! My son, who just turned 3 in April sounds almost EXACTLY like your son. I am also fraught with anxiety over it as a friend just mentioned Aspergers to me and his teacher wants him evaluated for behavior and social issues. Apparently he is very distractable, doesn't stay on task well, and does parallel play.

My son can't read, but is starting to be able to sound out 3 letter words and spell them (sun, fan, etc.). He learned his letters(upper/lowercase), numbers, colors shapes, all between his first and 2nd year. His teacher believes he only does parallel play now. HOWEVER, I see him initiate play with other children all the time in playdates. BUT, he acts really silly and gets them to mimic him, basically. Other children think he's really fun because of that. He is the one controlling the play, though, which worries me. He will mimic other kids, too, but he prefers when they follow him. With older kids, he will "herd". The other day he kept following the older kids as they doorbell ditched. The older kids never payed attention to him. .

What sticks out to me is he doesn't really talk to other kids, mostly. It is basically physical play. But, if I think about it, other kids his age (while playing) don't really talk that much to eachother. Although with adults he is a chatterbox. My son does not do the baby talk as you mentioned, but he will make up words to be funny. He's call something the wrong name as a joke.

My son loves anything that spins and makes noise: fans, blenders, vaccuum cleaners. He never did the repetitive spinning of objects either. He has routines as well. If he reads a new book a certain way, it has to be read the same way every time after that. Like if he skips a page, he has to ALWAYS skips it. My son is constantly in motion, and it sounds like your son is too.

He has eye contact, smiled early, met milestones on time, loves affection and is very affectionate with everyone. Is also extremely compassionate. If a kid (girl) gets hurt, he goes over to them and rubs their back. If a kid is in time out, he will go over to them and try to make them laugh if they are crying. If my younger son (6 months) is crying, he will try everything under the sun to get him to stop (pacifier, doing something silly, singing for him). He understands when I'm mad, and will actually tell me this.

His sentences are still a bit disjointed sometimes and he mixes up pronouns. He memorizes factual information about cars, too and memorized the planets at 18 months I believe. STILL loves the planets. He also follows a story pretty well and when asked can answer what the book is about.

He DOES repeate questions we ask him sometimes. He also repeats things we say still. He does the exact same thing with asking questions to point things out. It's a way of engaging us in conversation and MAKING us talk to him. If he just states something, maybe we ignore him sometimes? So he asks us a question so we feel compelled to ansswer. Or maybe we ask him so many questions that he is just doing what we do?

He sings some songs, and seems to pick them up very quickly from school. Anything new in his life, he will talk and ask questions about incessantly until the next new thing or experience happens.

He is VERY good with gross motor. CLimbs everything, swims by himself a little, has no fear, and kicks, hits, throws well. He also doesn't like his tricycle though. He can barely copy a circle (horribly), will balk at holding crayons and drawing (wants me to do it for him). He will have strong reactions sometimes when we try to take something away from him or not give him what he wants, but is failry easily redirected when we threaten time out or if we use a logical explanation. Potty training is a struggle. Will go pee on the potty, but won't tell us when. He will NOT poopy on the potty.

He is also absoultely fine in crowds, groups, new situations. He actually seems to thrive and like new situations. Loved the dentist. Had a swim test today, and did even better for the instuctor than for my husband who takes him swimming every week.

We are getting him assessed by the OT/ST in 3 weeks and will let you know what they say. What was the outcome of your son's evaluation? Did they say he had Aspergers? I'm very interested since they sounds almost exactly the same.

Erin

Hi Erin,

I would not rely on an OT to diagnose or rule out Asperger's. Your son has some traits (the love of spinning things, the social quirks, the repetitive language) but not others (the compassionate behavior would be very unusual in an AS kid of this age). I'd go to an autism center or a developmental pediatrician specializing in autism to get help sorting this out.

Our experience with OTs for our son with AS is not great. They tend to pin everything on sensory issues, which means they tend not to see other things that are going on. They are not qualified to diagnose neurological disorders. YMMV.

DeeDee

Thanks, DeeDee for responding. I totally thought the therapists could help distinguish this for us. Thank you for letting me know they can't. I'm finding it very hard to figure all this out. I'm very confused about the compassionate behavior, too, as it seems like he has a LOT of empathy and shows it often? I read this string on Wrong Planet and now I believe it is possible to have AS with empathy http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt125782.html

What do you think?

Erin, People with AS do have empathy, they just do not express it in the typical manner. Young AS kids have a hard time expressing it at all, so it appears like they have no empathy. Nan (mom of a 7yo with AS)

A difficult thing about autism spectrum disorders is that people expect all these kids to be alike; it's totally possible for each kid to have a different subset of traits. (A "Syndrome," like Asperger's, is a collection of features that often appear clustered together, but a person can have the syndrome without having all the features.)

At age 3 my child appeared to have no empathy, but now he really does seem to. I think for him it may be a learned skill rather than an innate behavior, or else it showed up late, just a part of his social/emotional developmental delay. But that's my kid. Yours will be different, whether or not he has a spectrum disorder.

For me, the difference between "bright and quirky" (which is what we were told many times) and "a disorder" is the extent to which the behaviors negatively affect him and the people around him. He was truly unable to cope with preschool: his inflexibility and difficulty with transitions made it really traumatic for him. For me, this went beyond quirky into "we need help," and the dx was an important starting point toward getting that help.

At 7, after a few years of hard work on his and our parts, he is still bright and quirky, with amazing academic interests, but coping much better with school and the world at large. Pursuing the dx was the best thing we have done for him, because it brought us a team of supports that help him grow toward his potential.

AS tends to shrink a person's world into routine, rigidity, sameness. The therapies have helped us broaden our son's world, which is better for him and for us.

HTH,
DeeDee

KSY wrote:
This is something people told us for years, and sometimes still do: oh, he's just too smart for the other kids, that's why he doesn't engage with them. Well, actually, he wanted to engage but hadn't a clue how to do it. The lack of subject matter in common was only part of the problem: the other, bigger problem was his deficient social skills. We still run into people who don't understand this.

This is an area where giftedness can mask disability. Not true in all cases, but true in ours.

DeeDee