Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment SB-5 score & cut-offs for gifted programs?

Hello, all... brand-new here!

I'm trying to understand my child's Stanford-Binet V score and what it means for his odds of being accepted into the (very highly regarded) self-contained gifted program in our public school district. Obviously, no one here knows that program's exact criteria -- teacher recos + MAP scores + class performance all come into play (which is how DS8 came to be offered testing in 1st place) -- but can anyone please give me an idea of what kind of IQ cut-offs are typical for public gifted programs? His FSIQ on the SB-5 came in at 140 (99.6%ile); lowest listed IQ was 132; subtest scores ranged 14-17. (SB5 + 3 WISC-IV subtests were administered.)

Thank you so much -- I really appreciate it!!

I'd be very surprised if those scores didn't get him in. Most public school gifted programs take kids with full scale scores in the 98th percentile (130 approx. depending on the std deviation of the test) and quite a few take kids in the 95th percentile (which is usually in the mid 120s). There is one school in Portland, with which I am familiar, that is billed as being for highly gifted kids and its cut-off is at the 99th percentile. Your son would still make that.

He should have no problems! Many SD have a cut off of 130. I know some that aim for 145; but they should have something like "highly gifted" in the title.

From the other thread; I absolutely believe he should not have seen the scores he was getting.

Newbie,
140 is 'gifted enough' for every pull out program that I've ever heard of, and 'definitly gifted' - There may be a very few self contained gifted programs that use a hard 145, so it is possible, but unlikely.

The fact that they are using so many different measures tells me that they are being very careful to match the program to the child. That's good. It may be that if you son doesn't make the cut off, there are still plenty of excellent ways for the school to match his learning needs. (pull outs, subject accelerations, mentors, etc.)

One way to ponder this, is to just count up the number of kids per grade who are in your school district, and divide by the number of kids per grade in the self contained pull out. Then throw in a fudge factor for 'district average IQ.'

OK - here's a try at some sample math. Assume that the district average IQ is 100, and it's evenly distributed. There are 2000 3rd graders. 40 are selected for the program. That means that they are looking for the top two percent, or 98th percentile. In a program like that, you son is easily in, but might actually hate it, because there is more busy work, and not much more intellectual challenge. Or your son might love it, and find it 'much better' than regular school and be perfectly challenged because the teachers are very savy about individualizing the program for kids. Or your son might love it, but need a full grade skip before he is actually challenged.

Example #2: A district with 20,000 3rd graders, and 20 are selected for the program - same IQ distribution assumptions - That means that they are looking for the top tenth of a percent, or 99.9th percentile. You've only given us a small peek at your son's scores, so it's possible that he would or wouldn't be selected for a program like this - hard to say, but the point is that it's no fun being the 'dumbest' / slowest in a classroom no matter how gifted you are, you tend to judge yourself against the folks you spend your day with: F2F, cyberfriends, or imaginary characters from books, yes?

exceptions to this rule are kids who have gotten used to slacking off, or are sort of dreamy or both, and need a couple of years to adjust to a classroom that expects them to actually put some effort in.


I don't know if this helps (and I sure hope someone checks my Math!) but it was fun to think about!

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Thanks to all for the replies!

Grinity, you're amazing. I follow the math in both examples but fall apart when it comes to assuming a higher IQ average for the district. Hahaha! Guess I now know where my own IQ lies, lol.

I believe our district has between 550 and 600 2nd graders (public & private schools included), vying for no more than 15 spots, I imagine. I say this because the self-contained program ("gifted" became "self-contained" somewhere in the past decade) is multi-age, I think, with a single 3rd/4th-grade classroom and then a separate 5th-grade classroom. It may be that there are more 5th grade students because of the district's policy allowing students to "test in" at 3rd, 4th or 5th grade (i.e., a child not selected in 3rd may be reassessed and selected later).

That said, I suspect the average IQ is higher than 100. It's a mixed demographic to some extent, but the majority is fairly homogenous -- well-educated, professional and economically upscale. Some of the 2nd graders (maybe 15-20) who may or may not try to test into the public self-contained program currently attend a private school with a 125 IQ admission cut-off.

Long way of saying... the math is beyond me.

But I see what you're saying, and it makes total sense. I also have a call in to see what more I can find out. I really appreciate all the input here.

Exactly - the actual Math is beyond anyone - there is no place where one can go and look up a school district's average IQ. But - sad to say - Economic groups do have enough of an slant to them to help one estimate mean IQ for a school district. SAT scores can help as well. If your district's scores on NCLB tests come out well above the state average, you can bet it's the mean IQ talking more than the wonderful teachers and systems. Just the fact that your district has a self-contained program very often means that you have a forward-thinking, well funded school system, with a noticible number of kids who need it in the first place. I've often daydreamed of pitching a self-contained program to the local school board as a way of raising our local property values....

Note - I am certianly not saying that one can estimate an individual's IQ from their economic circumstances.

((Digression Alert: I also suspect that once one gets to the far right hand tail of the curve, past 'Optonally Gifted,' that the association falls apart rather dramatically, or at least the error bars grow to ridiculous proportions. I am just speculating, and have no data. Since we have no reliable way to calculate LOG, we therefore can't really measure what happens after the 3rd SD.))

Anyway - what I do when I get to unknowable Math is to just 'wave to it' and try to remember that I'm simplifing, which is a fair way to see how far the numbers will take us.

Back to the numbers. If only 5.5 students were chosen out of the whole 550 students, then your program is taking the top 1% of their population. Looks like they are taking almost their top 3%.

Let's take a moment and imagine a town where 140 isn't in the top 3%. I don't have enough math to 'back calculate' what the mean IQ would be expected to be, or enough general information to know what the numbers are like in Silicon Valley or the suburbs of Washington DC, certian suburbs near Chicago and in Connecticut, but I'd love to know if anyone else has this information.

I still have no answer for you- but the odds are on yourside. I hate waiting, so I hope that this at least distracts you a bit.

Smiles,
Grinity

Distraction is what I need most! Lol

I love trying to figure these things out, too. Now I have more concrete information, though, and it sounds like it's just going to be a waiting game. The gifted teacher at his school told me he's certainly a "viable candidate," but also warned that it's a seriously tough pool this year. They take top 2% of the district, or about 12 kids, but it will all come down to how the other kids who were chosen to be tested perform. Top 12 will get in. There's a review process for kids who are on the cusp but don't quite make the scoring cut-off (as determined by how the top 12 do).

Scary. Stressful. Now I know how my parents felt every step of the way! I went to a gifted private school K-12 and then one of the top 2 or 3 colleges in the country. I'm constantly trying to correct for the problems associated with that (perfectionism, anxiety, etc.) when it comes to my own parenting. If the gifted classroom isn't the right peer group for him, I don't want him there, melting under a pile of stress and self-doubt. But I also don't like this path toward perfectionism I see right now, where nothing has ever been hard for him and he is being taught that all he has to do is show up and he'll do perfectly. Talk about not being real life! He asks me constantly for harder classes and more challenges. If the school system won't do it (I'll find out in the end of May), I'm going to have to figure out something.

Parenting. Is. Hard.

xoxo