Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Elementary School Anyone ever reverse a grade acceleration? And why?

Hi, we are trying to make a decision regarding my dd for next year. She was skipped from 1st to 2nd and it's a FT highly gited classroom. So it was like a double skip and she had never been in a school environment before. She does not like to read for pleasure but can read well. She isn't keeping up in math but has agreed to do some extra work this summer. Even with these struggles, she has had HUGE growth this year. She does not want her friends to go on to 3rd without her next year and thinks she'll be embarrased to stay behind. However, she admits that she is nervous thinking of the harder work in 3rd. She says she gets "everything wrong in school right now...." (that's not true but she doesn't do as well as probably 95% of her class. This year has been tough and I don't know if either one of us have it in us to go through the struggles in 3rd next year. The teacher thinks she can go on and may be behind for a bit but will come along just fine. My gut is just telling me otherwise. I feel like the only reason she wants to go on is because she doesn't want to look stupid being held back. This of course is breaking my heart since I agreed with the school that she could skip this year (the school approached us about it.) She has lots of friends and seems to enjoy the day quite a bit, I'm so torn as to what to do.

Has anyone ever reversed a skip and why? Would love to here how you made the decision. Thanks

Hi spiritedmama,

For my DS it just took some time. The first year of his skip DS sat smack bang in the middle. Like your daughter, he skipped into a gifted class that was also composite; his year and the year above. The learning curve was steep.

We're now into the second year of his skip and he's at the top of the class. (To be honest though, he has never 'not' enjoyed it though.

I hope it works out for you.

My gut is to go with your gut and reverse the skip.. I think i remember your original post about how you got in this situation.. with no achivement testing. So it may have just not been the right year to skip. It might be needed later on. Also i think that one of the criteria for a skip is that the child should still be at the "top" of the class. I don't think it is good for any child to struggle in the bottom 5%. Challenge is a good thing but that seems beyond healthy challenge.

irene

I think I was one of those who sees the upside to keeping the skip...and yet we have had extensive experience with the question of reversing a skip.

experience #1: DS was given a skip midyear 5th grade, and a subject acceleration at the same time in Math, at the school's suggestion. He had to miss huge amounts of History, which was heavy in writing research papers. He did poorly in Math, so after 3 months, we reversed the subject acceleration in Math. He was nervous about 'what the kids would say' but it worked out really well.

experience #2: It took all year (6th) for the skip to not feel like a terrible shock to his system (a needed shock, but still no 'duck to water' in our home.') 7th was a good challenge but the subject matter was lighter on abstract thinking and heavier on organizational skills, so while the work was a good challenge, there was lots of memorization, and not much new to think about - just a quirk of that particular school, I think. At the end of that year DS asked if he could switch from private school to public school, and we were ok with that. DS also asked if he could reverse the skip, as all the memorization and output requirments were wearing him out. I decided not to reverse the skip, and was really nervous. About 2 weeks later, all 105 pojects were back in his hands, with low A grades, and DS was feeling really proud of himself, and was able to admit that he wanted to reverse the skip because he just wasn't sure he could do it, and that now he was happy to be going into 8th grade next year.

example #3 8th grade at the public school was a great fit socially and academically. The public school had much lower expectations for organizational skills AND written output, but the material was still new and interesting. He worked pretty hard and got As. Nice, huh? As things unfolded, he started noticing that his attention was wandering even though the material was interesting and he was trying hard, and I finally was able to persue, and accept a diagnosis of ADHD, and allow him to start medication, which, once the dose got figured out, he is really feeling good about. So last September he started 9th grade at the public school, and is taking all honors classes. Things are finally challenging enough for him that I can see that even though he is working hard, and his organizational skills are so much better than they were in 4th grade, he is still very slow, and sort of missing the finer points of perspective taking from the teachers. I think the ADHD side of things making things difficult enough for him that I think next year is time for a deceleration. In a way, it's about the grades - now they really affect his college chances. In a way, it's about him being mature enough to handle a bit of bordom that was poison in 2nd grade. In a way, it's about him being very interested in the social side of life, and a chance to buy him more time to do the things he wants to do. I'm hoping he will have a chance to do a better job in school, with less effort, and have more energy left over for extracurriculars.

So, yes, I do think deceleration is a normal part of the odd path that our kids are on. I plan to use it with DS13. I still think that in your particular situation, the risks of deceleration now outweigh the benifits.

Has the teacher confirmed that in fact 95% of the class is ahead of your DD? I think that this is a question worth asking. I would also ask, "What is it that you are seeing in DD that makes you think she would develop best in 3rd grade next year?"

If you haven't had a 'Psychoeducational Evaluation' for DD recently, that might be a way to go, particularly if you are nearby some of the tester that really get the more unusual types of giftedness.

Whatever you decide I will back you all the way - there are no right answers here!
Love and More Love,
Grinity

Thank you all, this is great info!

Grinity - any ideas on how to find a pychoedu evaluator? We've never done that. She was only ever tested by Dr. Ruf when she was almost 6. I think it is vital we get a better picture. Particulary because we have ADHD/anxiety/mood issues with some of my other kids. And this dd has shown a few signs of dyslexia.

My husband agrees that she needed this "shock" and still does otherwise she would have continued to just slide by and not get motiviated. She would severly underachieve if given the chance. That is just her personality. If it requires effort, she's not interested:)

I've got to talk with the teacher a bit more. He's a very positive "it will all be fine..." sort of guy so it's hard to know. I do know that recently dd has really jumped in maturity or something. She just did a big presentation on a country and really went all out for it. I was impressed that she had it in her. She is doing awesome in spelling and writing (this was completely awful at the beginning of the year.) Main issue right now is the math. The school would probably be open to whatever I ask. So I love the idea of maybe staying down a grade for Math and moving on for the others? That might be good for her.

I can totally see where my dd would have thrived with this skip if it had been in a regular classroom. The regular 2nd grade work would have been a perfect fit. Instead, this Gifted class of kids all a year older is much more challenging.

I need to confirm that she is actually doing worse than 90-95% of the kids. I guess I'm basing that on what I see of the other kids work when in the classroom and what she says about her performance being the worst of everyone. I think that she knows more than she takes the time to show on things like the NWEA Maps, etc.
Basically, she just wants to do her own thing and not be bothered with school. In fact, she has said that she's glad to have skipped a grade so she "gets done with school faster....." I think I'm in for a long road with this child.

I guess I am just trying to do what's best for her but not sure if I can ever really know what that is. I feel like either choice has consequences. Even though my gut is telling me to pull the plug on the acceleration, I don't know if I can do it. I'm afraid there may be some self esteem issues that might be even worse if she has to stay back next year.

Uggh, who knew this would all be so complicated!

I agree that the self image issues could be hard in the same school if she decelerates. However, placing a child inappropriately solely to make her feel better about where she is placed can't be the right thing to do.

I'd think, like you and others have said, the first order of business would be to figure out where she actually falls in relation to the rest of her grade mates. Being below avg in her current grade can't be a good thing if that is the case. I'd expect that something should be done other than just waiting for her to improve on her own if she is struggling. That may or may not be deceleration. Maybe they offer tutoring or more individual work.

You said that Dr. Ruf tested her when she was 6. Did she do IQ and achievement or just IQ? If her IQ is solidly in the HG range and she isn't performing on par, perhaps it just isn't the right time like others have said or maybe you have a 2E issue going on like you've considered.

Do you have an option of changing schools if you have her stay in her current grade for another year?

Grinity, I've always heard it said, 'there are no wrong answers here', so to find out there are no right ones, well that sounds more like it!! (might have to post that at my desk )
lol!

Psychoeducational evaluation is the fancy name for what Dr. Ruf does. Please call her up and share your concerns with her. Some of what Dr. Ruf is also good at is understanding how personality affect school behavior (Myers-Briggs perspective) and how the parent's personality and the child's personality types interact.

I'm really glad to hear that you saw your DD do a big jump ahead. This is typical of HG and PG kids - very uneven development. I think talking to the teacher, and Dr. Ruf will help guide you. You can also start the year in the gifted 3rd grade and move to regular 3rd grade for Math in December if she really is in the bottom 95% and it's starting to bother her. I think she needs to be somewhat bothered! The old supported push.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I agree with the general principle, but I disagree that this is an instance of the general principle.

This isn't a situation where the child is misplaced, rather one where the child was underachieving and needs more time to catch up, or where there is a subtle learning bottleneck that would never be caught if the child was allowed to underachieve.

In any classroom, including gifted classrooms, fully half the children are 'below average.' Right? Is it wrong to have a child in a setting where they are below average?

I shared my son's stories to debunk the myth that all HG/PG children thrive the instant they get their gradeskip. For my son it was more like 12 to 18 months.

Another option is to hothouse math a bit over the summer...or hothouse her strength area, to protect that self esteem a bit.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

You all have such good insight, thank you so much!

We have started Mathnasium tutoring for the next 6months. She enjoys being there and the teachers there have commented on how quickly she is picking up on things.

Her IQ when tested put her at the 99.9% and there was only one subtest that was low at the 85% (it was quanitative reasoning.) Dr. Ruf commented that she would probably never be a "math whiz." So I suppose we aren't surprised at the math issues.

This will probably sound like a really goofy question, but how does ahievement testing differ from the NWEA Map testing the kids do at school? We've never done the achievement testing and I am wondering how these work.

My husband is solidly in the "she needed a good push, look how far she's come since Sept." camp. He thinks we should probably wait until the end of this summer and see where she is in her math tutoring to make a decision. I suppose I'll agree with that since there is not really a need to decide earlier. We could move her to another school, her younger sister will be going to a different GT school and if we'd move dd to this one that would help if we need to hold her back.

I definitely think this wasn't the right time for the skip and she would have been fine without it. But she was definitely underachieving and would continue to do so, hopefully in the end maybe this was a life saver for her potential (oh I hope so.....) When we last talked to Dr. Ruf about her issues, she felt like she really needed this push. Her personality profile was ENFP. From what I've read about this type, she will be much more interested in the big picture, extroverted, etc. She's very social, creative, and her imagination is incredible.

thank you all for your input, it is so valuable.