Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Straight from the teacher's mouth!!

OK, I might have missed some, but I saw no classical musicians and no 20th century American mathematicians, with the possible exception of Walter Pitts. I don't know who he is, but it says that he was "one of the scientists who laid the foundations of cognitive sciences, artifical intelligence and cybernetics." Those are all new fields, so that kind of makes sense. Not to say it's not an example that refutes my statement - it certainly is.


I wasn't really thinking about historical figures because the educational avenues available to people even just 100 years ago were so different. I would be interested in hearing about someone's neighbor or cousin who obtained a PhD in math at a highly competitive university or works as a professional classical musician who attended school in the U.S. and did NOT have parents who encouraged and facilitated their achievements pretty proactively.



P.S. - Oh - my bad! Joachim Raff Georg Philipp Telemann are two self taught classical composers. One of the others listed (Edward Elgar) had a parent who a was a musician, though.

That's true. Sort of. I guess I'm inclined to think that the same avenues are still available, though they are less popular these days.

I don't know anyone who has gotten a PhD in math at any university, much less a highly competitive university, but I do know a number of people who have worked as professional classical musicians. None of them are (seem to be?) highly gifted, and none of them had parents who did anything special to advance their education. Two of my close friends have dabbled in playing classical music professionally, and they learned in regular band class. The person I know who has played professionally (and without other employment) most of his life was self-taught.

I think so too, but I have trouble imagining a child navigating those avenues without parental support and intervention. I mean, I can imagine a child teaching himself/herself at home, but the parent would still have to jump through whatever hoops are required of homeschoolers. Otherwise their avilable time would be pretty limited. But it wouldn't be impossible. I also think that so much readily available recreation makes it less likely that a child will delve deep into interests on their own. Why study physics when you can pay videogames? OTOH, maybe the internet makes independent acquisition of knowledge more likely - A child could find a lot of information and guidance online without needing a parent to drive them to the library.


That's very interesting. My kids are pretty decent pianists (not great) and one thing I've noticed is that all the other kids at their age level have parents who are more knowledgable and involved than me (but my sample size is very small). I bet it's because my kids are still pretty young and other children whose parents are less involved catch up later. Thanks for that information. I wouldn't have expected that.

I don't mean to be contrarian... but when I read this post, I see that the teacher DOES say that something needs to be done if a child is reading well beyond their peers or preferring documentaries to Thomas... I am not saying that she is making productive suggestions; but my reading is that she is ranting about parents who are pushing for more for their kids when their kids aren't necessarily gifted. And those parents do exist. Honestly, sometimes I think I see a few of them here on this forum.

I do agree that this teacher could use some education on 2e, but I think our whole education system is just not geared to asynchonous development in kids. If there is one thing I would change in schools, I wouldn't get rid of this teacher -- I would set it up so everyone goes at their own pace academically so our gifted kids CAN surge ahead where they are ready.

Excellent post intparent - I agree....as an ex-teacher for many years, they do not train you very well at all in dealing with how to differentiate instruction and with the curriculum now a days being so scripted and structured- it does not allow a 2e or out of the box thinker to soar.

I understand your point & we do have a lot of bright but not gifted kids filling the TAG programming in our local schools as well. Some of these kids do have arrogant, pushy parents. And some of the gifted kids are never recognized as gifted b/c they don't present the same way as kids who have done four years of tutoring and enrichment.

I think that the parental frustration comes from the assumption that this teacher, and some others, seems to make that being gifted is something that needs no accommodation before late elementary or later. Bright kids who will do well in advanced classes don't necessarily need pushy parents and lots of accommodation early on. Kids who are wired differently may.

We weren't pushing for anything for our girls until we had problems -- partially b/c I didn't know that they were gifted until we had problems in school. In hindsight, it would have been a lot easier to have had them taught by people who understood uneven development, OEs and all of the other stuff that can go along with being gifted. We would have had a lot less damage to undo if they hadn't been so harmed by some of their school experiences. Dd11 seems to have come through it okay none the less, but dd9 still has a lot of emotional damage from some of her elementary experiences, teachers who didn't understand her, and those who left her feeling like she was weird but not too bright b/c she didn't come across as gifted to them.

(I hope that I am not one of those parents on this board whom you referenced at the end there ! )

Therein lies the problem.
Generally speaking, not attacking you directly

Why must success be defined what competitive university someone gets into? I feel sad for the parents who can only define success by that measure. That line of thinking is the reason we have so many pushy parents pressuring their kids to be the best and brightest.

If my kids grow up to be honest, independent, confident adults, then I will consider them to be a success. If they are happy working at McDonalds and taking care of their own, then I'll be proud for them.

Happiness cannot be earned or bought, it can only be found within yourself.

I'm not talking about success or happiness, I'm talking about achievement of a very specific type. I think the word string "highly competitive university" just sets off alarm bells in people's heads.

I'm not using that as my example (and my example was not getting admitted to a university, it was successful completion of a rigorous program) because of any prestige factor or to suggest it is a better goal than any other. Only because I think that very specific achievement is not possible without high parental expectations and/or an environment that is very different from what is typically found in US schools. And I may be wrong about that, but either way I'm not suggesting that it's a better goal than others or a better route to success and / or happiness.

I'm not sure, but I think she may be referring to underachieving kids who could use some guidance and encouragement to challenge themselves, without which they may choose the path of least mental resistance (the video games over the physics).

Yes, I'd agree with this. I think there's a lot of paranoia that builds if the system is confusing. I've seen it in my own school system where there are not enough spots at the gifted schools to serve the population and the system ends up being quite arbitrary. That open the doors for tutors for IQ tests, etc.

As for the self-taught learners or better put gifted students that didn't have parents pushing the schools for accommodations. Yes, they exist. I've known a few and happen to be married to one too. If you limit your criteria to one who gets a grad degree at MIT, no, I don't personally know anybody. But I do know others who have gotten absolutely no accommodations in school and have gone on to ivy league universities at some point in their lives (either as a professor or postdoc or student). These people have an absolute AMAZING drive and passion. I'd say it's not typical and there are some hang ups that can occur that can haunt them for the rest of their lives.