Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment What IQ is considered Highly Gifted??

Yes and also, anytime a child starts ceiling more than a few sub-tests, which happens when a child reaches 99.9 on the WISC IV, doesn't that beg the question of unmeasurability?

Very interesting posts and discussion.

I like the idea of using standard deviations to differentiate the levels. You then have the 2 SD above the mean is MG, 3SD is HG, 4 is EG, and 5 is PG.

The problem is that those only work in theory as with 3 SD above, you already get to the >99.9%.


Nevertheless, personality and drive can trump/boost the IQ score. That is the part I like about Ruf's levels. However, my problem with Ruf is that her levels seem to work well for the kids that have early academic interests.

That actually makes sense. But I wonder if you can actually get a 175 on a test like the WISC IV, even with extended scoring? And I mean FSIQ, that is.

And I agree Mam, I think a certain personality can demonstrate their abilities better in a testing situation. Also, some personalities might end up with an under-representative score, especially kids that are reserved, or scared or anxious.......or maybe just like to mess with adults, lol.

The problem is that the extended norms are even less calibrated than the rest. I know a tester who refused to use extended norms because the child had 2 ceiling scores (18 or 19) in separate sections of the test (performance/verbal).

I don't know how far the scores can extend; but I have heard of numbers in the mid-twenties. This would certainly go beyond the SD for that; but how realistic they are?

I agree with what you say and testing. I was also referring to Ruf's levels; so many of her indicators are academically related: child knowing letters, counting, etc. If I went strictly by her early development, Ruf's levels would have seriously underestimated her current achievement levels. There are many kids like her who do not fit in that model, namely many 2E children.

Me too!!!!

My DS was tested in 2005 at 11.9yrs using WISC 3 and this is his profile.

Verbal IQ range - 137-149 99.9th%ile
Performance IQ range - 124-140 99th%ile
FSIQ - 137-148 99.8th%ile
He reached the test ceiling of greater than 16years and 10months on 10 of the 13 subtests. On the 3 tests he scored less than the test ceiling: i.e. an age equivalent of 14.2 years (Picture Arrangement), 14.6 years (Coding) and 16.6 years (Symbol Search), all of these three subtests used speed for bonus points or higher scores.

I have been told he is highly gifted, exceptionally gifted and profoundly gifted. I didn't know about the LOG until I started reading these boards. DS has mostly L5 traits including the drive. Knowing that "number" or "label" really hasn't made a difference to us as we haven't needed it for advocacy, which is just as well because at the end of the day I'm still really none the wiser (mmmm maybe just a little bit). But then again I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer!LOL.

Thanks for posting this. You know, until you said this I wasn't really thinking about my DS's other subtest scores being at the ceiling because some of them were in the 14-16 range. But for 7 of the subtests (including all 6 subtests on the VCI and PRI sections) it does show him as >16:10 (he was 11:11 at the time so similar to your DS). Does that mean there were potential ceilings on those sections where he wasn't at 18 or 19 but was at the highest age equivalent they report with that test? Perhaps not because on the VCI subtests he did get to the 19s with that same age equivalent. Maybe Dottie knows This board is very helpful, thank you!

My knowledge of IQ tests? well you could fit that on the head of a pin.


Bearing in mind that my DS was tested on the WISC 3, I was never given raw scores as they told me the raw scores are scaled to age equivalent. I'm assuming that's what they did with the WISC 3?. She did however tell me she couldn't go any further on the subtests that he hit ceiling with. Which I suppose explains why she kept saying "we must use caution when interpreting these scores".

Personality (as others have mentioned) certainly played a part in DS' testing as well. The 3 subtests mentioned that used speed didn't match his personality type of being careful and cautious. The psychologist made mention of this also, stating he would always go over his work before looking up for the stop watch to be clicked off, which was a positive and successful attribute but penalised him when scoring.

Thanks! :-) It does seem odd that on all of the subtests the age equivalent is the same, but I do think that the ultimate scores seem to me to be a fairly accurate description of relative strengths, so maybe the age equivalent just doesn't mean much once you are almost 12 but the category scores (VCI, PRI, etc.) still make sense.

Jumping in a few months later:

I find it extremely odd to be able to even differentiate/measure the differences between IQs 130-160. Just look at that bell curve.

The difference between 99% and 99.9999% is so small.

The difference in height signifies the number of people in each category, which does look small on a bell curve. But the difference in IQ (ability) is signified by the horizontal axis, not the vertical. And the difference in ability is very real.