Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Aspergers?

I agree with DeeDee, because I too struggled with this. At first, I was convinced that my son's issues all fit into the oes that gifted children are supposed to have. Hyper sensitivity, motor oes, emotional oes.

Like Deedee, I realized that I accepted the diagnosis because his "oes" were more. He was so sensitive that if someone put those net shirts in soccer on him he would cry for an hour. At 8, he still has issues with smells in the cafeteria, and he reacts strongly to them. I think that's the thing...if he were just sensitive, it would be easier, but his reactions are completely out of proportion with what happened.

Rigidity is how he fortifies himself. If he knows what will happen, he can plan on how to deal with it and get through it ok, but changes throw him off.

My smart, quirky son with a huge vocabulary that made him seem different the minute he started speaking didn't fit in with kids his age, but he did fit in with several boys that are three and four years older who share common interests like role playing games, musical theater, Mythbusters, science, technology, music, reading and lots of other things. With all these different interests I thought it would be easy to find common ground with other kids his age, but it wasn't. He didn't do sports and that is all most of the boys in our area wanted to talk about. My son turned 12 today and some of his friends are old enough to drive and have part time jobs. He doesn't see them as much as he used to. I knew this would happen eventually. At least there is Facebook and he can keep in touch that way and this online socializing seems to be working out well for him.

Only one of his best friends is still doing musical theater with him, but there are a lot of girls his age or older in the musical theater group now and he is realizing this is not such a bad thing. He is hoping to get a good part in Suessical now that he is over the shyness about singing solos. His confidence level has gone way up in the last several months, in spite of having to wear a scoliosis brace and dealing with a lot of migraine headaches, because the middle school aged group of girls tell him he is smart and funny and he makes them giggle and one of them even said he was cute.

My son is as tall as some adults now so talking like an adult doesn't seem odd to other people, unless he really unleashes his huge vocabulary while talking to me in the presence of someone we just met who he feels treated him like he is a "dumb little kid that doesn't know anything." He seems sensitive to that kind of thing. I am sensitive to the looks we get when he does this.

The neuropsychologist that tested him described him as personable and she did not diagnose him with Aspergers, just dyspraxia. A smart kid with a mild disability in a small town with a sports hegemony will have a difficult time fitting in even if he has good social skills.

Thanks so much everyone for all of your responses. There seems to be such a thin line here between Disorder and Gifted and it seems to come down to social/rigidity issues. My husband is still fighting me on this, and I'm wondering if I should continue to push getting him evaluated, or just wait? I keep hearing, that the earlier the better. But, he is very borderline, and so it's tough. Can any of you tell me if your sons fit this description at age 3 (in April)

Here are the things that worry me about him and seem like Aspergers:

Repetition in play: If he plays someting for the first time, EVERY time after he plays the same way.
Repetition in speech: He will repeat the last thing we say sometimes as well as quesitons.
Incredible memory: He remembers things that have happened when he was probably 18 months old
Learning: Learned colors, Upper/lowercase letters, numbers to 20, and letter sounds by the time he was 20 months.
Teacher evaluation: Says he is highly distractable and won't sit and play when told. He will, for example, sit at a station and pour popcorn for one cup to the other a couple times and then just decide to pour it on the floor.
Teacher evaluation: Doesn't comment on other children's play and mimics a lot. Is extremely silly and mainly does parallel play. She wants him evaluated for moderate to severe behavior issues.
Social: Doesn't seem to talk about other children very much, but they talk about him. He does not say "hi" to children and acknowledge them unless I tell him to. Other kids do acknowledge him.

Things that don't seem to fit Aspergers:

Extremely good at gross motor. Jumps in the pool and does freestyle a few feet. Climbs up walls other children can't. Very good at throwing, kicking, and hitting balls.

Empathy: Always touchy, huggy. Will always kiss his baby brother when he sees him. Asks me what the matter if I cry and hugs me until I stop. Goes up to other kids who are crying and will put his arm around them and kiss them on the cheek. Always tries to make his little brother stop crying by singing to him, playing with him, or giving him a binkie.

Completely understand emotions: Will tell me that I'm mad if I'm yelling. Understands what different facial expressions means

Reading books: When I ask him what characters are doing in books, he's able to answer. I heard this was a problem with Asperger's children?

Re-directing: I'm able to redirect him if he's upset as long as I have an explanation. For example, he loves his brown shoes. They were dirty, and I had to put the blue shoes on him. He asked a few times for the brown shoes, but I told them they were too dirty and he stopped.

Tranistions and new experiences: Is VERY adventurous. Anything new does not phase him. He likes new people and experiences. Example: Had no problem in his swim test with a new lifeguard taking him in the water and trying new things.

Social: He will go up to new kids and adults and interact with them. It seems like he does more than parallel play to me. He has eye contact with them and laughs with them. Does not use a lot of words though. Mainly will be silly and get other kids to be silly with him and follow him around. Several other parents tell me their kids talk about Devin all the time so he is defintiely "fun" to them.

I know this is a lot, but I've been dealing with this for months. I have a friend who is convinced he has Aspergers due to his "ritualistic" behavior. And his teacher obviosuly thinks something is wrong. Please help...

Erin

Erin ... from what you describe he seems borderline and more in line with gifted with a possible 2E BUT if you are worried and it seems that you are, just get him evaluated. It is peace of mind at the very least. If what is stopping you is your husband I would approach him with the eval as something you need to do for yourself so down the line you won't have guilt if he does in fact have Asperger. As for the idea that the earlier you test the better off he will be ... someone correct me on this but Asperger is the exception to that rule and diagnoses is harder at such an early age. Now Autism is one that the earlier you diagnose the better for the child and though Asperger is under the same umbrella it isn't the same thing.

Erin, I'll run through your list here. I'll say, though, that if the teacher thinks an eval is in order, you should get one. It's better to know than not to know. A knowledgeable expert will likely be able to note signs of AS at age 3. (A not-knowledgeable expert, however, will not; get someone with experience.)

Repetition in play: yep. Had this. Also lined up toys rather than "playing" with them, or used them in odd ways.

Repetition in speech: called "echolalia." ours didn't, some kids with AS do.

Incredible memory: yes.

Learning: yes, ours was about that precocious.

"He will, for example, sit at a station and pour popcorn for one cup to the other a couple times and then just decide to pour it on the floor." Can be a cover for poor play skills, a bid for attention, or something else.

"Is extremely silly and mainly does parallel play." Our son used silliness as a way to interact, because he wanted to interact but didn't know how to do it well. Silliness can cover for poor social skills.

"She wants him evaluated for moderate to severe behavior issues." Beyond the silliness? At that age we had panic, screaming, and biting in preschool because he was so overwhelmed.

"He does not say "hi" to children and acknowledge them unless I tell him to." Ours had to be taught to do this by rote.

Having good gross motor skills doesn't rule out Asperger's. Some AS kids are deficient here, some not. There is a champion surfer with AS.

Empathy: Some AS kids do show empathy (it's a myth that they have none). Mine didn't at this age.

"Always touchy, huggy." This can be empathy or craving touch and sensory input. If it is inappropriate to time and place, or he's huggy with people he shouldn't be, this can be a sign that the child has a poor understanding of social norms.

"Always tries to make his little brother stop crying by singing to him, playing with him, or giving him a binkie." I know an AS girl who did this because she couldn't stand the sound of a baby crying.

Completely understand emotions: This may indeed be evidence against AS. Does he get the subtle ones ("embarrassed") or just the basic ones ("happy/sad")?

"Reading books: When I ask him what characters are doing in books, he's able to answer." Whether an AS kid can do this depends on their pragmatic language skills. Many can do this. Mine can, and could at that age. "Why" questions were harder for him to answer.

Re-directing, adventure: Again, most AS kids are inflexible, but this is not an ironclad diagnostic indicator.

Social: The silliness can be a cover for not having other social skills, but the eye contact is a good sign.

The only thing that is in common among all AS kids is that their social skills are poor. All the other traits are commonly associated with AS but do not necessarily appear in every kid.

HTH,
DeeDee

Hi Erin:

Wow, can I relate to your posts!

I echo what DeeDee has written in full, especially the point above. Our salty old developmental pediatrican summed it up best: "No child has been harmed from having an assessment or receiving early intervention, but plenty of children have suffered for not having received timely support."

My daughter, who is 4.5, was diagnosed at age three with PDD-NOS. That means she has characteristics/behaviors associated with autism, but not in the right combination and/or level to meet the formal criteria for a diagnosis of autism or Asperger's. However, kids with PDD-NOS face many of the same challenges as kids with autism or AS, and that is certainly the case with our daughter. She is also highly gifted.

To the lay person, and even to some professionals who don't have a background in dealing with ASD (our initial pediatrician, for instance) she might just come across as yet another quirky smart kid. Because she was reading at such an early age, engaging in witty exchanges with adults, and was an all around happy kid (as if happiness and ASD are mutually exclusive ;-), my husband thought I was totally overreacting in wanting to have her assessed. It was the most difficult period in our otherwise solid marriage (only after DD's diagnosis did I learn that it is *very* common for one parent to struggle more than the other with the possibility of an ASD diagnosis).

Still, in my heart of hearts, I knew that there was something "different" about DD -- particularly when I watched her around other kids her age. She wasn't interacting in the same manner as her peers, nor was she engaging in the same type of imaginative play. Add to it the precocious reading and sensory issues, and I just felt that there was something more in play than simply giftedness.

For us, getting DD's diagnosis turned out to be a blessing of sorts because it gave us a much clearer picture of what we needed to do to address her needs. She began an intense early intervention program (mainly social skills) at age three and is now thriving. I shudder to think where we'd be right now had we taken a wait and see approach with her.

My advice on this one would be to trust your "mamma bear instinct." If you have concerns about your son's development -- and certainly I can appreciate why -- your best bet is to probe these with a qualified professional.

Best wishes...I really can relate to how scary it is to even contemplate something on the spectrum. For me, however, the "what if" stage was far worse than actually living with the diagnosis.

Cheers from Sydney,

Kristen

Thank you, everyone. You have solidified my resolve to push forward with having him evaluated, if only for my peace of mind to KNOW. It has been the most difficult thing in our marriage, but we will get through either way. If social skills are the only common thread, then I believe it is still a possibility and I do want to get him diagnosed so we can start receiving help. I have to say that I'm glad I'm not alone in going through this! You all are wonderful and THANK YOU so much for taking the time to help me. I think this is the right decision and I'm going forward with it.

Erin