Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Wisc IV scores in - good news turned upsetting

Hi all,

I could use some guidance here. We got my son's WISC IV scores today and they were really strong (as a caveat - I am travelling and my DH read me the scores and report - so hopefully I have everything straight). There are 13 subtests (is that usual?):

Similarities: 17
Vocab: 18
Comprehension: 13
Information: 17
Block Design: 16
Picture Concepts: 17
Matrix Reason.: 15
Picture Completion: 9
Digit Span: 11
Letter # Sequence: 15
Arithmetic: 19
Coding: 13
Symbol: 13

FSIQ: 136
GAI: 144

So that is all good - although obviously I am concerned about the picture completion with the 9 and the digit span. Do these suggest anything?

But the bigger concern and the thing that has me really upset is that in the report they spent the entire last 2 paragraphs talking about the social skill low score (I take that is the 13 in comprehension - am I correct? - which while low compared to the other stuff is still above average). They suggested that the low score could be due to my parenting (I think they call it over-functioning parenting) and claim that more testing is needed to exclude that as a cause. I think my son is a bit immature, but is there anything else that could cause that sort of a low number, is that a valid assumption? It is disturbing because I have to show this to the school and it seems like it just gives them ammunition to say my son is immature and try to deny a subject acceleration.

Could any of this suggest a mild autism spectrum issue. My son has a lot of friends in his class, and is quite social, but has very low frustration tolerance and as I said, is a bit immature in some ways, but not in others. In addition, when he was tested for OT, his OT found that he has a hard time reading facial expressions - would any of this concern you.

Anyway, what should have been a really nice day from his strong results has turned into making me feel very upset - I have always felt pretty confident about my parenting - and now what.

On a whole other topic - any suggestions on what other testing we might consider. The only other thing we have done is SCAT testing.

Thanks so much for listening. Cat

The reason the report has 13 subtest as opposed to 10, like many here post, is that he was given 3 optional subtests (Information, Picture Completion and Arithmetic). These optional subtests do not factor into the Full Scale score but they provide additional information. Many psychologists administer only the 10 required subtests in order to save time (after all, most neuropsychological testing also includes academic achievement tests as well).

It really bothers me that schools make such inane, unsubstantiated judgments about parenting from cognitive scores. "Comprehension" questions require open-ended verbal reasoning. Sample "Comprehension" questions are:
--Why should one keep away from bad company?
--Why are streets numbered in order?
--Why do we keep money in a bank?
--Why do we have laws?
--What does "a stitch in time saves nine" mean?
So your DS might just not make his reasoning completely explicit or provide passable but not perfect answers. Perhaps although his reasoning is perfectly lucid, he doesn't like to elaborate and is reserved. Wrong parenting is the last explanation that should be explored and don't let what the psychologist said make you feel guilty. Not all "professionals" are of equal quality; many are mediocre. If you can, I would ask the testing psychologist, what was wrong with his "Comprehension" responses: superficial and not reasoned out? reasoned out but not completely explicit? good response but spoiled at the end because goes on tangent? freezes and says he doesn't know and is afraid he won't be able to reason it out on the spot? etc. Knowing the specifics will give you a better idea of the areas to work on.

Given how strong he is across the board and that Letter-Number Sequencing is high, I don't think he has any neurological/LD issues that lowered Digit Span and Picture Completion. Digit Span was probably lower because it is a rote, not very intellectually demanding task and so he didn't put too much effort into it.

As for Picture Completion, fortunately it didn't factor into the full-scale. In this subtest, a child is shown a picture of a scene and asked "what's missing?". For example, a child may be shown a picture of a volleyball game where a net is missing and he has to identify that "what's missing is the net". Or he may be shown a clock which only has a long hand and no short hand and he has to say that "what's missing is the short hand". Poor environmental awareness, poor attention to detail and a degree of cognitive inflexibility may all cause a lower score. I took an adult version of this IQ test at age 20, and did absolutely atrociously on "Picture Completion", much lower than your DS--it was my lowest subtest. Unfortunately for me, it is a required subtest on WAIS III and factors into all composites.

This is something I've always vaguely wondered - are there versions of the WISCIV for different countries, or what? I know WISCIV is used in the UK, but our streets are *not* numbered in order (they have names, not numbers, because our towns and cities are in almost all cases emergent with irregular patterns of streets, not planned with a grid system), so this particular question would floor almost any UK child. Does the tester just omit the most obviously country-specific items, or is there a whole new set of questions, or what?

About the streets numbered in order, this was just an example. They try really hard to throw out any culturally biased items and this question probably wouldn't show up in WISC UK.

i join the others- am really shocked by the "over-functioning parent" thing. Where in the world did they GET that?? magazine psycho-babble at best (and i'm not talking a out Scientific American more like Good Housekeeping)..

Low comprehension can SOMETIMES indicate an autism spectrum disorder but it is not used as a diagnostic tool- the correlation is not that strong. My son got a really high score on it (18 or 19) and his school still thinks he has PDD. Also 13 is really a very good score.

the tester actually put it in the report? about the over-functioning parent thing??

Here's a magazine article that equates over functioning parent to overindulging. I'd be looking for a pretty good explanation from the tester about why that was included in the report.
http://www.overindulgence.info/Documents/Overindjulgent%20Parents,%20Under-Functioning%20Kids.pdf

I think the tester is on the warpath to diagnose something, and calling a 13 a weakness (possibly indicating a disability) is quite a stretch. My oldest is SN and you would be horrified if you could see what we have experienced, mainly test results which are widely different from each other (by different testers), each with its own conclusion which appears tailor made to the agency which did the eval. Depending on the agency or school district, within a period of 1 year, my ds had IQ scores varying by 40 points. It honestly sounds to me like they want some sort of diagnosis and maybe they hoped the comprehension score would be lower? Also that business about the OT saying he does not read facial expressions, that sounds highly subjective to me. In my experience OTs have been some of the worst at "creative diagnosis" if you know what I mean. GL to you. You have one very bright child there, and that is the only conclusion I would carry away from that test session and those high scores.

Can you talk to the tester and say that you have some questions about the report? Tell him that you were unsure about what exactly he meant by his comments. Listen to the explanation. Tell him your goals and what you plan to do with the report.

And then ask him in no uncertain terms to please REMOVE them from the official report and print you a new copy!

While he may be qualified to make editorial comments (no matter whether they are wrong or not) and they could be helpful in some way, you have a right, I believe, to ask for just the numbers he got on the tests along with a comment about whether the numbers were valid and perhaps a comment about what educational situation might be best for your child. Those things are data and clinical judgement but not editorializing.

Don't let this person make you doubt your parenting, your child, or your child's needs.

Un- @ing believeable!!!!

Seriously - I would want to have a phone consult with one of those 'top ten' testers to review 'what should we be doing with the information from scores like these?'

Look - all the kids here have special educational needs, and most of them have 'special needs' in the 'growing up' department too. Most of us who are 'with it' and care enough to post here could be accused as 'over-functioning parents' - if you believe the 'big lie' that all children develop along the average path, and that schools 'always' know what's best for kids, then we are all pathological by definition. Ohhh, it makes my blood boil!

Hasn't our society gone past the 'blame Mommy' business? I guess it pays the bills, but I don't like it one bit. I've only been able to handle this kind of 'flack' by saying 'in the privacy of my mind'

You think I'm over-functioning? Why don't we send this child to your house for the weekend, and see how YOU do.

As you might guess I get told that I'm over-involved, over-compensating, and over-indulging by various professionals and family members from time to time. Excuse me - if I'm the one who is 'getting my own needs met through parenting this child,' why as I the one who had to get the ball rolling for overnight camp, a private school that could provide more of a 'village' and now, boarding school?

Deep breaths.

I love the idea of getting home, reading the test, asking the tester to explain what they are talking about, and INSISTING that they prepare a version for the school that leaves out the last 2 paragraphs.

How does your child do in playdates with older kids? To me that speaks volumes, not just paragraphs.

Love and More Love,
GriMity

Exactly. How can the tester based it on one single score which 1 SD higher than the mean? Yes, it's lower than the rest of the scores but it's the very last subtest. Your child might have been done with the test by then.