Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Prepping SBV

Talking with another mother at the Jesuit school where DD is now going. Her husband has a prepping service in NYC, for SBV, ERB and OLSAT.

The daughter got 168 sum of raw scores for SBV, DD got 149 last year (though I wonder about the psychologist -- didn't have a choice). Anyway, the mother tells me that the teachers consider her daughter one of the smartest in the class. While DD was given math problems to see what she could do.

We have had another assessment and DD5's IQ is estimated around 150-155. At this age, it is still transient but I do notice more motivation, internal pushing for challenges etc, which I did not see at 4, just high curiousity.

So I am not sure how much you can prep for SBV, but clearly this girl got high scores as a result.

A friend owns one of the largest psycholgical assessment firms in NYC and he said that until around 7th grade, IQ can vary 20/30 points either way from the testing at age 4-5. So I am trying not to figure out where DD ends up, but I thought the story interesting.

On another note, DD is not staying at the school. Great for the above average kid, not the really smart. She is cooperating more this year, and has a final assessment at the Special Music School in 12 days. Please wish me luck. She is having mixed feelings (perfectionist, leaving her school etc. ) need the luck. We did hear that half of the kids go on to Styvescant High school from SMS. From Styvescant you get into any college, Harvard, Yale etc. The curriculum is great, particularly for highly gifted kids.

I feel like education for DD is a constant and ongoing project...maybe some of you get that

Have a good day.

Ren

See, and I tend to see prepping a kid for an IQ test as cheating or an effort to get scores that don't really tell you what the child's needs are b/c they aren't a true reflection of his innate ability. It sounds like it was someone else's kid, not your child, though.

I suppose I'm still against prepping kids for IQ tests in general... but after watching the videos last fall about the families in NYC trying to get their kids into K, I'm much more understanding of their situation. If we were in NYC and knew we were competing against people busily prepping their kids, I would prep mine, too, in order to level the playing field.
http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....2440/Documentary_about_New_Yorkers_.html

We went back to the psychologist who tested her at 2 and 3 for Hollingworth. Where she was too young by a month and wouldn't put her in with the older kids the second time.

It is crazy in NYC because they use the OLSAT for the citywide g&T schools, which has a poor correlation with SB. DD did poorly on it last year. This year, we did paid for a mock test, and she did fine but spots are limited. We don't get the results for another month or two.

The whole process has taught me that if she had gotten into Hunter, I probably would have been hands off, thinking it was taken care of. But since she was not a cooperative interviewer last year and our options were limited, I am more involved and more involved with what she needs. I hope that it works out better. Though she is more aware of the process. She is nervous about not getting into the Special Music School because we think it is a better school for her and "what if she doesn't make it after trying her best?". There is only one spot after last year big admission into K.

We try and work through these fear of failure, which saddens me happened so early. But maybe, it is something that will resolve itself and she overcomes it now and forever??

Anyway, we worked out an incentive to just play her best. A Belle nightgown. Disney has these nightgowns that look like costumes. I will be glad when Disney stops taking so much money from me.

I have to say the Mandarin was a good idea this year. She likes it.

My focus is just to give her a good base and keep the math accelerated, however I have to do that.

Ren

Yeah, those types of environments set things up in a way that basically messes up the validity of IQ tests. Ultimately, I wish that prepping workbooks, games, and services just didn't exist. The fault lies more in the competitive environment that puts people btwn a rock & a hard place when trying to figure out how to give their kids a shot at opportunities.

Although the degree of prepping where I live is nowhere near what goes on in NYC, some prepping whether through tutoring, workbooks, or buying copies of the actual tests does happen and I think that's why it rankles me. It creates an uneven playing field.

Having gone through it and not having the most cooperative child, I don't blame parents. When I was playing a lot of tennis, I wanted to play with people better than me, it challenged me and made me a better player.

If a child of 130 IQ gets one of those spots and gets to go to school with kids 140-160, he/she may get reallly motivated, expand their own IQ and thinking skils and have a great outcome. They could also get discouraged, but I think that is parenting skills more than the school environment.

Just like if you wanted your kid to be a competitive figure skater. Your child showed amazing natural talent but you didn't have the tens of thousands of dollars each year to spend on lessons, skates etc. The kid next door was a good skater, the mom was obsessed and able to spend the money. That kid went to the Olympics. Maybe didn't get a medal, but she got to go through hard work, determination and a fat wallet. Not a level playing field on natural talent but this is America and why there isn't a health care bill.

The level of prepping and early training is nothing compared to what China is doing. They have 3.5 times the population. Those kids will be coming here for opportunities.

I am happy that I have a smart, talented kid but am also aware that gets her very little without hard work and options. And we try and show her what hard work gets you. Like Disney World for 3 years, Hawaii this Feb. Europe in a few weeks, princess nightgowns and a puppy that I now walk, hence am on the board very little. I had to train a puppy -- in an apt. So I plan playdates and family dinner parties, but piano practice has to be done. I hope I am getting it right. But that is my plan.

Ren

But don't those great tennis players have the right to want to play with equally great tennis players at least some of the time and not serve as the one who mentors or motivates the good but not great players? Likewise, no one would argue that a 98th percentile child doesn't belong in a gifted class, but don't those kids with IQs in the 140-160 range have a right to have the rest of the group be mostly similarly able rather than mostly 130 with a lot of prepping?

I would view it the same as parents of kids with 110 IQs wanting them into the 130 grouping so they can be stretched. What, then, happens for those few kids who really are at 130 if most of the class isn't -- it becomes a non-GT class in our experience. I recall having friends in high school whose parents stated that they liked them hanging out with me b/c I expanded their vocabulary. It was flattering, but it probably wouldn't be where you'd want to hang out all day if you were expecting to work with peers on assignments for instance. I'm not one of those 140-160 people FWIW.

Ah - the SUV problem rears it's ugly head!

Good Insight! My prayers are with you Ren - best wishes,
Grinity

Totally understand your point Grinity, but I was playing Devil's advocate. And those tennis players didn't have to play with me. And you didn't quote my point about the skater.

It is America and if the parent can prep and get that 130 into a group that is more PG, all the power to them. But it is my responsibility, as a parent to make sure my kid gets what she needs. So we take her to Mandarin, she does the piano. I will arrange accelerated math to keep her math skills prime and take her to Liberty science center and the museum of Natural History for special classes.

My kid is lucky in that she has the poster child for the A-type personality and I will bust down any door so that she has options. And we have enough money to pay for the programs, the lessons. But the point was the prepping. If my kid didn't start reading at 2.5 or start telling math calculations at 2 and 3, but heard stories...I bet I would one of those prepping. Glad I didn't have to face that side of me. I prepped for the OLSAT this year. Not hardcore but after last year's dismal result, I wanted to make sure she knew to take her time, look at all the answers before choosing. Not assume, she knew a picture and that was the answer. The reason that High scoring SB kids do so poorly on the OLSAT, they rush, assume because they are not tortoises. Too often they are the hares. And my daughter is ultra hare. That she gets from me. So I can give her much better skills than I ever had.

Ren